Manual transmission making a nasty noise!

triplewhite · Post by **triplewhite** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:35 pm

I have an 87 cabriolet which had a new clutch installed about 6 months ago. I'm not sure how much I trust the garage that installed it, as ever since, it has been difficult to find first gear. I took the car back and told him he must have put the linkage back on wrong, but he insisted that it would "get better." It didn't.

As of last night, it makes a horrible grinding noise when decelerating, and pushing the clutch, or coasting out of gear makes no difference. The only thing that stops the noise is when the car is stopped, with engine running, or during acceleration.

The car's done 196,000 miles... I've worked on and around VWs for ten years or so, but changing transmissions is a little out of my league without having my own workshop. Any ideas? I'm not sure I want to take it back to the same garage...

Thanks

Post by **Briano1234** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:53 pm

I have heard of the trannys, self machining (making metal) but personally never have had one do it. I would do a drain of the gear oil in the tranny through cheese cloth to verify that the clutch isn't making metal or that it is. Then refill with redline. If your rock guards are not on the tranny, then you could have gotten a rock in the clutch and that will Grind it a bit there too.

But a Griding could also be the Brake Calipers Grinding on the rotors, or a bad wheel bearing. If you are decelerating and touch the brakes does the sound change? That would be an indication of a brake or wheel bearing.

triplewhite · Post by **triplewhite** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:17 am

Hey thanks for the reply... it's definitely transmission as it's a very focused sound coming from the engine bay only affected by the gearbox being engaged but not under load. I'll try the drain and see what happens. My guess is that it is some sort of bearing within the box itself that has worn out ?? Is it possible that something could have collapsed with the clutch itself to cause this? I made sure when it was replaced that not only the friction plate, but also the pressure plate and the thrust bearing were changed at the same time. Like I said, the noise only occurs during gear changes, when the clutch is dipped, and slowing through the gears....

Post by **Briano1234** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:55 pm

triplewhite wrote:Hey thanks for the reply... it's definitely transmission as it's a very focused sound coming from the engine bay only affected by the gearbox being engaged but not under load. I'll try the drain and see what happens. My guess is that it is some sort of bearing within the box itself that has worn out ?? Is it possible that something could have collapsed with the clutch itself to cause this? I made sure when it was replaced that not only the friction plate, but also the pressure plate and the thrust bearing were changed at the same time. Like I said, the noise only occurs during gear changes, when the clutch is dipped, and slowing through the gears....

If the engine is running, and you press the clutch in neutral, do it grind? if so then it is the clutch if not then the Gear box.

Gear boxes are pretty stout, but they do go bad. I guess I have had 1 that went over 230k prior to selling, and another with 130K on it....

and pressure places and clutch plates do go bad.... I had one of each go on different cars......

triplewhite · Post by **triplewhite** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:03 pm

Briano1234 wrote:If the engine is running, and you press the clutch in neutral, do it grind?

No, if the car is not moving then it doesn't make the sound. Only when decelerating in gear, or changing up and down gear while the clutch is pressed does it make the sound. I have been advised that it is the diff' making the noise, and to replace the transmission. I guess that's the kicker of having an older car and not knowing its history before I got it 3 years ago. I ofter wonder how it was driven before me...

So on to my next question, can you, or anyone recommend the best means of transmission replacement. Where can I get a good quality rebuild or reconditioned unit? I have contacts in the UK, but I'm in Memphis so that could be expensive...

CalAltaDubber · Post by **CalAltaDubber** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:54 pm

This sounds like deja vu to me. I had a very similar expierence with my '87 a few years back.

A bout a year after having the clutch replaced, the car started making grinding noises when the clutch was depressed.

It got worse, and we couldn't figure it out. Drove the car to a dealer and let the service rep see what was happening. He shook his head.

Turned out that the crank shaft had 1/4" play.

We ended up replacing the engine. It was either a streight replacment or a rebuild. Turned out the replacment was cheaper.

I don't wish to scare you, but it is something you should look for.

gull · Post by **gull** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:03 am

Before you give up on the transmission, make sure you don't have bad engine mounts. Mine degraded to the point where I'd get a horrible growling, rumbling noise when coasting in gear. The bad mounts were letting the engine tip forward until the exhaust hit the floorboard. Bad mounts can also cause the gear linkage alignment to shift, making 1st or 5th hard to find.

triplewhite · Post by **triplewhite** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:11 am

thanks for the tips, it's definitely "self-machining" though, the noise is pretty unmistakable. I think I have a lead on a transmission through thesamba.com, wish me luck! Anyone in Memphis have an engine hoist they want to lend me? I'm thinking of taking the whole lot out so I can fix some other problems at the same time and have a general clean up

Post by **Briano1234** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:33 pm

triplewhite wrote:thanks for the tips, it's definitely "self-machining" though, the noise is pretty unmistakable. I think I have a lead on a transmission through thesamba.com, wish me luck! Anyone in Memphis have an engine hoist they want to lend me? I'm thinking of taking the whole lot out so I can fix some other problems at the same time and have a general clean up

It is far easier to jack the body of the car up to about 3 feet, and drop it out the bottom, you can use a 4X4 braced on the fenders and a come-along to drop it..... To replace the tranny you don't have to pull the engine just drop it out the bottom.... far far the better way to go.

Be sure that you are supporting the car properly, with stands and wood blocks to get the height needed, then the 4X4 needs to be padded to prevent the scratching of fenders.

Then use a caribiner and a self ratcheting strap to secure the back half of the engine.

I used a 1 1/2 inch self ratcheting tie-down the last time I dropped my tranny and it worked extremely well.. I even used it to jack the tranny back into postition.

or you can create a rig like the one I used....

triplewhite · Post by **triplewhite** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:36 pm

thanks for the tip! and thanks for the picture!

kamzcab86 · Post by **kamzcab86** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:35 pm

Thread-jacking

:

So, what's the diagnosis of a trans that shifts fine into 5th and reverse but will not go into 1st-4th, clutch in and/or out, engine on and/or off, via the shifter and/or via grabbing the linkages themselves (new clutch cable installed about a month prior)?

Post by **Briano1234** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:52 pm

kamzcab86 wrote:Thread-jacking :

So, what's the diagnosis of a trans that shifts fine into 5th and reverse but will not go into 1st-4th, clutch in and/or out, engine on and/or off, via the shifter and/or via grabbing the linkages themselves (new clutch cable installed about a month prior)?

Rebuild or replacement. ...It could be that your speedo cable finnaly will ocme out now

kamzcab86 · Post by **kamzcab86** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:13 am

That's what I figured...

Damn car...

But, yes, cost of a trans rebuild = 1-piece speedo cable installation!

Post by **Briano1234** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:48 am

Cheaper to get one used off of the tex or ebay.... then it is a matter of just swappint it out,, about 3 hours work on a saturday afternoon.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2915728
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2869199

But there are all the othe rforums that you are on.. Some one has a good spare for ya at the right price.

1lowcab · Post by **1lowcab** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:33 am

nice looking rig briano!! give me the specs.