Ever since I got my car in february the idle cas been strange, I took it to concept 1 and they didn't help. They just adjusted the fuel air mixture each time i took it in. that seemed to help for a little while but the idle would get worse as time went on.
Here's the problem
I start car - Idles smooth at 1000
I wait 1-3 minutes - Idle goes to crap and fluctuates from 500 to 700ish
I drive and the car warms up - Idle is stable back at 1000 (but sometimes a little less than 1000????)
I'd like to take it back to c1 but theres a lot of vws at the pick'npull right now And i like to sve money
Any Ideas?
Idle is whack
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Caddycabby
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Briano1234
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Re: Idle is whack
what yearCaddycabby wrote:Ever since I got my car in february the idle cas been strange, I took it to concept 1 and they didn't help. They just adjusted the fuel air mixture each time i took it in. that seemed to help for a little while but the idle would get worse as time went on.
Here's the problem
I start car - Idles smooth at 1000
I wait 1-3 minutes - Idle goes to crap and fluctuates from 500 to 700ish
I drive and the car warms up - Idle is stable back at 1000 (but sometimes a little less than 1000????)
I'd like to take it back to c1 but theres a lot of vws at the pick'npull right now And i like to sve money
Any Ideas?
Briano
Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click....
Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click....
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kamzcab86
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If it is an '89 or earlier Cab, the car originally came equipped with CIS. So the car in question had CIS-e swapped in and then "downgraded" to CIS?? 
For CIS idle adjustment: http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/~kaw5/CISidle.htm
For CIS idle adjustment: http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/~kaw5/CISidle.htm
I'm not certain of the circumstances, but he told me that C1 had downgraded the CIS-e to CIS (or at least that's what they told him). I would suppose it is possible that a previous owner had upgraded the injection system at one point. Apparently it never ran all that well in that form either. Perhaps Tony can shed some more light on the subject.....
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Caddycabby
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I'm not sure i can shed anymore light all I know is its an 89 cabriolet and that concept 1 made it a cis system from what they said was a cis-e. I'll give them a call. They should know this stuff shouldn't they?
that dana website is deadly it tells you everything.
that dana website is deadly it tells you everything.
Last edited by Caddycabby on Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Calimus
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CIS stands for Constant Injection System., rabbit/cabriolets went from Carburation to CIS fuel injection to Digifont fuel injection. As far as I know, there was never a factory CIS-e cabriolet (I could be wrong).
CIS-E was in the 16v Scirocco's and GTI's. Might have also been in some later Jetta A1's or early Jetta A2's. From there, they went to Digi or Motronic.
CIS-E was in the 16v Scirocco's and GTI's. Might have also been in some later Jetta A1's or early Jetta A2's. From there, they went to Digi or Motronic.
16' Challenger ScatPack
05' Yamaha FJR1300
02' Honda VTX 1800C
05' Yamaha FJR1300
02' Honda VTX 1800C
. They have always been fuel injected using CIS until Digifant took over in 1990. 
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kamzcab86
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I wasn't entirely positive myself, William ( I knew the first ones had 1.6L engines), until I received the totally awesome 1980 brochure.
Carb Rabbits: 1.5L and standard in all states except California in 1980; fuel injected 1.6L engine was optional in all states on the Rabbit C and L models.
Fuel injection Rabbits: 1.6L and standard for Rabbits sold in CA; also standard for the Rabbit convertible (only engine available for the 'vert).
Carb Rabbits: 1.5L and standard in all states except California in 1980; fuel injected 1.6L engine was optional in all states on the Rabbit C and L models.
Fuel injection Rabbits: 1.6L and standard for Rabbits sold in CA; also standard for the Rabbit convertible (only engine available for the 'vert).
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Caddycabby
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Calimus
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With Cis, there are a few things I know it could be.
1. Fuel distributor
2. Warm Up Regulator
3. Fuel Accumulator
4. Fuel Pump(s)
5. Vacuume Leaks
6. Frequency Valve
The fuel distributor has a plunger within it which has been known to become gummed up. Sometimes it can be cleaned, but putting the whole thing back together can result in scratches on the plunger that render it faulty.
The warm up regulator is the part attached to the block that has fuel lines running to it. When cold, it allows extra fuel pressure to richen the fuel mixture. It has an exlectronic heater in it that starts to heat up a bi-metallic spring just like in a house thermostat. Engine block heat also help in this process. At the spring warms up, is lowers fuel pressure to where it should be for warm running. If for any reason this isn't working right, it can cause idle and running issues.
The fuel accumulator is back by the fuel tank and helps in the delivery of fuel volume. However, if it's leaking or fault, it can cause issues. I'm not sure if it will cause idle issues, but generaly it can cause issues while turning or hills and such.
Fuel pumps are key. if one is not running then you will have problems. In the main pump on the outside of the tank there is a check valve that can become faulty or gummed up. Cleaning/replacing this can help many fuel related issue.
Vac leaks are one of the most common factors with idle issues. All you can do is check all your vac lines and look for leaks. Replace any line that looks suspicious. Also check any sensors or valves that they go into. If you have A/C in the car, there are the vac boost servo's (salt & peper shakers) that could be clogged or bad. Also look at the Auxilery Air Regulator. It's on the backside of the intake manafold. This controls the air flow durring cold start and warm up. If it's not working correctly, hello various running issues.
The frequency valve is that buzzing sound you should hear in the engine bay while the car is running. It's located on the backside of the fuel distributor and if it's not making any noise, then you should be having all kinds of problems, but I've had one go bad any only had idle issues.
Thats all I have off the top of my head. Hopefully others will chime in with more sage-like advice.
1. Fuel distributor
2. Warm Up Regulator
3. Fuel Accumulator
4. Fuel Pump(s)
5. Vacuume Leaks
6. Frequency Valve
The fuel distributor has a plunger within it which has been known to become gummed up. Sometimes it can be cleaned, but putting the whole thing back together can result in scratches on the plunger that render it faulty.
The warm up regulator is the part attached to the block that has fuel lines running to it. When cold, it allows extra fuel pressure to richen the fuel mixture. It has an exlectronic heater in it that starts to heat up a bi-metallic spring just like in a house thermostat. Engine block heat also help in this process. At the spring warms up, is lowers fuel pressure to where it should be for warm running. If for any reason this isn't working right, it can cause idle and running issues.
The fuel accumulator is back by the fuel tank and helps in the delivery of fuel volume. However, if it's leaking or fault, it can cause issues. I'm not sure if it will cause idle issues, but generaly it can cause issues while turning or hills and such.
Fuel pumps are key. if one is not running then you will have problems. In the main pump on the outside of the tank there is a check valve that can become faulty or gummed up. Cleaning/replacing this can help many fuel related issue.
Vac leaks are one of the most common factors with idle issues. All you can do is check all your vac lines and look for leaks. Replace any line that looks suspicious. Also check any sensors or valves that they go into. If you have A/C in the car, there are the vac boost servo's (salt & peper shakers) that could be clogged or bad. Also look at the Auxilery Air Regulator. It's on the backside of the intake manafold. This controls the air flow durring cold start and warm up. If it's not working correctly, hello various running issues.
The frequency valve is that buzzing sound you should hear in the engine bay while the car is running. It's located on the backside of the fuel distributor and if it's not making any noise, then you should be having all kinds of problems, but I've had one go bad any only had idle issues.
Thats all I have off the top of my head. Hopefully others will chime in with more sage-like advice.
16' Challenger ScatPack
05' Yamaha FJR1300
02' Honda VTX 1800C
05' Yamaha FJR1300
02' Honda VTX 1800C
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PDX Cabby
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what weight oil are you running?
what oil filter?
funny questions, but trust me on this one...
aside from that, it could very well be a faulty Aux. Air Valve. There are two components in the CIS system that bump idle speeds (three if you have AC).
The AAV, located on the passenger side of the intake manifold, supplies additional air when the motor is cold. It recieves a 12v power supply when the motor starts up that heats a bi-metallic strip that is supposed to close slowly as the car warms up to temperatures. I would imagine this valve is stuck close (hehe, mine is stuck open) and not giving the motor the boost in air that it is supposed to be recieving for the first 5-10 minutes after start up.
The other valve (or two if you have AC) are mounted on the passenger strut tower. One will click open if engine RPMs drop below 700RPMs. I don't think that you have a problem with the valve.
The third valve for AC cars boost idle only when the AC is active. Nothing to worry about and they usually fail in the off possition, which can cause stalling when the AC is on.
the AAV is not a cheap item to replace, and you should try finding a couple at a wrecking yard. Its entirely possible C1 did not install this part, and would be the reason to cause the problem. I'd have to have a few engine bay pics to know for sure. IIRC, CISe used more a Digifart style idle air stablizer.
The reason I asked about the oil rates...
It does depend from car to car, but I know thicker oils will cause this same problem. Many people think they drive their cars hard enough to warrant using 20w50 weight oils which can be too much for VW oil pumps to crank through the system which will cause the motor to bog down. A poorly chosen oil filter can do the very same thing.
what oil filter?
funny questions, but trust me on this one...
aside from that, it could very well be a faulty Aux. Air Valve. There are two components in the CIS system that bump idle speeds (three if you have AC).
The AAV, located on the passenger side of the intake manifold, supplies additional air when the motor is cold. It recieves a 12v power supply when the motor starts up that heats a bi-metallic strip that is supposed to close slowly as the car warms up to temperatures. I would imagine this valve is stuck close (hehe, mine is stuck open) and not giving the motor the boost in air that it is supposed to be recieving for the first 5-10 minutes after start up.
The other valve (or two if you have AC) are mounted on the passenger strut tower. One will click open if engine RPMs drop below 700RPMs. I don't think that you have a problem with the valve.
The third valve for AC cars boost idle only when the AC is active. Nothing to worry about and they usually fail in the off possition, which can cause stalling when the AC is on.
the AAV is not a cheap item to replace, and you should try finding a couple at a wrecking yard. Its entirely possible C1 did not install this part, and would be the reason to cause the problem. I'd have to have a few engine bay pics to know for sure. IIRC, CISe used more a Digifart style idle air stablizer.
The reason I asked about the oil rates...
It does depend from car to car, but I know thicker oils will cause this same problem. Many people think they drive their cars hard enough to warrant using 20w50 weight oils which can be too much for VW oil pumps to crank through the system which will cause the motor to bog down. A poorly chosen oil filter can do the very same thing.
85 Cab - 1.9L 8v, g-grind, euro dual downs to TT race w/ Borla, VWMS fuel dizzy, 2H tranny with 5th gear swap, TT short shift, FK 60/40, 15" BBS RA, rear disks... begging for boost...