Synthetic Oil

[CalAltaDubber]

I'm looking into synthetic oils. I have one question.

Has anyone used AMSOIL? If you have What do you think of it?

OK two questions.

[PDX Cabby]

Yes and Yes
It works great, but I still stick with Mobile1, especially when I can get it for $4.50 a quart.

I generally think all high end synthetics are going to be very similar. These guys tested both Mobile1 and Amsoil in their LS1 Camero. http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stor ... -life.html

[CalAltaDubber]

Thanks.

The price is all about the same for me $10 -12/litre depending where you go. But the guy next door swears by the stuff. So if it is as good as he says, then it is worth giving it a try.

[PDX Cabby]

Pros:
better lubrication
longer life (12k miles on the LS1 while still under break-in)
more HP
better fuel economy

Cons:
price per bottle

But the price per bottle is just an up-front cost. in the long rung synthetic will be cheaper because you're not buying it near as much (two oil changes a year, at most!), and you're picking up a few extra cents at the gas pumps too...

[Briano1234]

Well I use Lucas Extender on the oil changes and have slick 50'ed the engines.
I run 20w50 castrol with no issues.

Used to run milspec synthetic oil in a toyota.....fasty fasty....

[gull]

Heh, on my car after 12K I'd have burned three oil changes' worth of oil anyway.

[Calimus]

Synthetic is great for the newer cars and cars with forced induction. My general rule is that if the car wasn't built after 2000, then it's not really going to benefit from the synthetic oil unless you have recently resealed the motor.

Synth oil has a tendency in older cars to leak past the seals. Even though it's rated the same as the dino oil, it's physically "thinner" and tends to get by the seals. At most, I'd run synth-blend, which I ran in my VR6 jetta.

The Rocco's and Cabby get normal Dino oil, the Beetle get full synth as it's turbo'd and came with it from the factory as does the A6 for the same reason. Slick 50 is great for NA motors, but not so great in turbo motors as the extreme heat that builds in the turbo's after you shut the engine off can/could cook the PTFE and cause a clog.

At the end of the day, oil choices are a dime a dozen and everyone has an opinion. I say run what the factory says unless you are racing the car. Then, talk to the folks that race the same cars and see what they are using.

[CalAltaDubber]

The main reason I have been asking this question is, I have learned that the new API oil standard drastically reduces the amount of zinc that is required. This in turn causes more ware especially around the cam shaft.

So far, it seems dino oil with an additive like Slick 50 is a good choice. But I have more research to do.

[gull]

The main reason I have been asking this question is, I have learned that the new API oil standard drastically reduces the amount of zinc that is required. This in turn causes more ware especially around the cam shaft.

So far, it seems dino oil with an additive like Slick 50 is a good choice. But I have more research to do.

Slick 50 is mostly just ordinary 50-weight motor oil. I think it has some Teflon in it but there's no evidence that putting powdered Teflon in engines does any good. A lot of it no doubt ends up in the filter anyway.

Some motorcycle and aircraft oils have higher zinc content. No guarantee the additive packages will be compatible if you blend them with automotive oils, though. Zinc mostly matters when the oil film breaks down and you end up with metal-to-metal contact.

Are you seeing excessive cam wear? I gather it's a problem on aircooled VWs, but I've never heard of it being a big issue in their watercooled engines. (The exception is the 5- and 6-cylinder diesels, which were rumored to have cam oiling deficiencies.)

[Briano1234]

Slick 50 is mostly just ordinary 50-weight motor oil. I think it has some Teflon in it but there's no evidence that putting powdered Teflon in engines does any good. A lot of it no doubt ends up in the filter anyway.

Well, I will tell you 2 little stories.
1980 Rabbit Diesel Ls 17,000 on the odo, and I slick 50'ed it, my brother was a dealer...heneeded the monies.

20015 miles, I get home from a 75 mile drive, interstate, and go by the garage, and had my tires rotated.... The radiator had split apart at the seams, (crappy design of a mount), and he Radiator was bone dry..... Pulled the t-stat and less than a pint of a/f came out. Never lost power, never indicated it was running hot....

Wife Drove the car from 120k on the odo Atlanta, Ga. to Mobile Al, and back, well I guess I didn't get the oil cap on and the engine was bone dry oil everywhere, this was before they put the splash shield on the cam.... save for a 1/2 full filter...

Did slick 50 work, I think so..... So much that I Slick all my cars.... Since 1981...I guess it is like Lucas, and Amsoil you either believe or not....

[Calimus]

Yea, I have my own Slick-50 saved my ass stories as well, but like brian said, you believe it or not.

Save for my 2 turbo motors, everything else has been slicked.

Also, I wouldn't worry too mucn about the lack of Zinc or extra cam ware. Go to a parts yard, grab 2 spare cams for each JH and you have a lifetimes of cams at your disposal. Hell, snag an extra motor as well and you should be ready for everything.

[PDX Cabby]

Synths have more detergents and are cleaner than average dinos. Because of this, the synth will clean up deposits that were keeping your already damaged seals from leaking - kinda like picking a scab.

When I first switch to synth I saw a 10 degree drop in oil temps! never had a seal go because of it

[kamzcab86]

The main reason I have been asking this question is, I have learned that the new API oil standard drastically reduces the amount of zinc that is required. This in turn causes more ware especially around the cam shaft.

So far, it seems dino oil with an additive like Slick 50 is a good choice. But I have more research to do.

The Vanagon folks recommend, and swear by, Brad Penn Partial Synthetic 20w-50 (don't have a clue, other than online, where to get it). Brad Penn contains the proper level of ZDDP (aka zinc dialkyldithiophosphates, which has slowly been removed from most popular oil brands over the decades). I can't give a personal account; my van uses what the Cab does (Castrol High Mileage) with some Marvel Mystery thrown in.

GM makes a ZDDP additive, but it's expensive and available only at your local GM dealer; and, you should use it sparingly.

[CalAltaDubber]

I've done a little research into this now and here is what I have.

The American Petrolium Institute (API) produces the standards to which motor oils are produced and licences manufacturers to use their seal on the product.

The API seal (often refered toas the "donut") is on the label of the bottle of oil.

It not only provides the grade, but also the "API Service". The API service level ensures the makeup of the oil is to API standards.

When my Cabriolet was built the API service for gasoline engines was "SG or possably SF" (I would have to look in the owner's manual to confirm).

These service catagories are now obsolete. Acording to API the current service catagories are SJ, SL, SM, and SN (SN introduced in Oct. 2010).

Here is the API Service Catagory chart http://www.api.org/certifications/engin ... 120210.pdf

In therory, the newer catagories should cover all older engines. The issue is that the amount of zinc in the newer Service catagories has been greatly reduced. This creates the concern of wear on the cam and lifters.

Several oil products do have a formula with added zinc, all are synthetic, but synthetic oil does cost about twice as much as regular dino oil.

So in the short term, all I need to do is look for 20W 50 motor oil that still conforms to API Service SJ or SL.

For those of us that have a newer VW (like a MK IV) VW spec 502.00 lists several brands of oil they say is acceptable for use. I have found out that all these oils are synthetic and all conform to API Service SJ.

I still have a little more research to do, but thanks for the input.

[anika_perry]

I only use Repsol. The best one I tried so far.