The past week in Car repair

[sixsracing]

Good for you for sticking with it until you succeed. Hope you get it tuned to
your liking. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

[bbrown]

Thanks for all the support guys and gals. I got it running pretty decent right now. However I now seem to have developed a ticking/whining/chatter (not just sure how to define the sound) of either the timing belt or the alternator. I don't know if it was an existing sound that was muffled by the belt cover or not. I removed the belt cover and it is not going back on for many reasons the major being that it next to impossible to get on the car with out tearing the whole motor apart. Have any of you removed your timing belt cover and noticed an increase in belt noise? Maybe I jarred a bearing that was going bad enough to make it get out of groove and it is now making some noise. I will see if it gets any worse, as long as I can make it to work tomorrow (4:45 am is when I start work my boss@ Coca-Cola says welcome back and come in 15 min early so we can get caught up) and if the noise isn't any louder I may leave it until another day. If you guys have any thoughts let me know. Thanks once again for all of the help.

[kamzcab86]

Ah, yes, the infamous nut/stud pre-'88 metal belt cover. I'd really like to meet the genius who came up with that stupid idea.

As for the new sound, double-check that the belts aren't too loose (sorry, can't remember the deflection specs off-hand). If they're fine, it's possible that one of the pullies has gone bad. When you replaced the timing belt, did you replace the belt's tensioner too?

[gull]

Is the noise related to engine speed, or more random?

Sticky valve lifters are common on these engines. They make a 'tick-tick-tick,' one tick for every two crankshaft revolutions.

Random rattles can be loose accessory brackets. On my car someone left the pivot bolts out of the A/C bracket and it made quite a puzzling rattling noise.

Some amount of high-pitched whine from the alternator is normal when it's charging, in my experience. The timing belt will also sometimes "sing" if it's a little on the tight side.

Sticking the end of a piece of vacuum hose in your ear and probing with the other end can be helpful in tracking down noises...sort of a crude stethoscope. If you suspect the alternator you can also temporarily remove the belt to see if the noise goes away.

[sixsracing]

I hate noises after timing belt replacements. Most common though
would be tensioner. Gull is right when he says over tight belts can
sing, timing or v-belts. If the tensioner was marginal and then you
loosened and retightened it can send one over the edge. I have a
mechanics stethoscope if you care to borrow it. Unfortunately there
isn't a rotating device in these beasts that isn't prone to failure.

[bbrown]

Ah, yes, the infamous nut/stud pre-'88 metal belt cover. I'd really like to meet the genius who came up with that stupid idea.

As for the new sound, double-check that the belts aren't too loose (sorry, can't remember the deflection specs off-hand). If they're fine, it's possible that one of the pullies has gone bad. When you replaced the timing belt, did you replace the belt's tensioner too?

Well the cover that I removed was plastic, but I think it was the bottom half as it only covered the intermediate sprocket and and the crank sprocket. Correct me if I am wrong, but the metal one only covered the cam gear and maybe a little more, but that didn't matter to me since mine was MIA. I checked the belts and made sure I couldn't turn them 90* using my thumb and index finger just like indicated in the Hayne's Manual. The tensionner was replaced last summer and has a couple thousand miles (under 4000) on it.

Is the noise related to engine speed, or more random?

Sticky valve lifters are common on these engines. They make a 'tick-tick-tick,' one tick for every two crankshaft revolutions.

Random rattles can be loose accessory brackets. On my car someone left the pivot bolts out of the A/C bracket and it made quite a puzzling rattling noise.

Some amount of high-pitched whine from the alternator is normal when it's charging, in my experience. The timing belt will also sometimes "sing" if it's a little on the tight side.

Sticking the end of a piece of vacuum hose in your ear and probing with the other end can be helpful in tracking down noises...sort of a crude stethoscope. If you suspect the alternator you can also temporarily remove the belt to see if the noise goes away.

The noise is related to engine speed. If the revs go up the rattle/chatter becomes more frequent and when the idle gets bogged down the rattle/chatter slows down. I have tried the use a screwdriver as a stethoscope trick to no avail. I really don't think its a stick valve as the noise is isolated to the belt side of the motor, but I have never adjusted or checked the valve clearance on my car yet as it is a mechanical head and I don't have the shims and tools to properly do a valve job and I will leave well enough alone, t didn't tick before the belt swap so it shouldn't tick after right? Back to belt tension I will go out and make sure that I don't have the belt over tight I tend to be a fan of a grab a bigger hammer school of thought and sometimes tighten things more than necessary (I always torque critical engine component to spec though).

I hate noises after timing belt replacements. Most common though
would be tensioner. Gull is right when he says over tight belts can
sing, timing or v-belts. If the tensioner was marginal and then you
loosened and retightened it can send one over the edge. I have a
mechanics stethoscope if you care to borrow it. Unfortunately there
isn't a rotating device in these beasts that isn't prone to failure.

So loosening and tightening a tensioner a bunch of time could make it go to pot? If so then mine probably is on the fritz as I must have loosened and tightened the tensioner at least a 10 times (lots of trial and error on the timing in the beginning stages).

Thanks all for your help and speedy input. I will check on the belt tensioner tomorrow and might pick up a new one at NAPA (I think that's where I got my last one). Well I'm out for the night got be up by 3:00 in the morning. Thanks.

[gull]

Loosening and tightening it shouldn't hurt it if it wasn't bad to begin with, but bad ones sometimes become obvious once they're disturbed.

If it felt and sounded smooth when you spun it with the belt off it should be OK. Bad ones sound like a rusty roller skate wheel.

[bbrown]

Well I replaced the tensioner, but I don't think it was that bad if bad at all. My Dad thinks it could be the bearings in the alternator going. The car has the original alternator and with 190,000 miles on the clock the alternator is already showing signs of weakness and I wouldn't be surprised if the bearings in the alternator have finally started to go. I took a video clip with my digital camera so it is not A+ quality, but it gives a vague idea of what the noise sounds like. I hate this problem . I checked and rechecked the belt tension and it is spot on. I am thinking it is either the water pump pulley, alternator pulley, or cam bearings (if there is such a thing).

The video as stated above:

[gull]

I doubt it's the cam bearings. Can't really tell from the video where the noise is coming from, though.

You could remove the V-belts to the A/C compressor and alternator and see if the noise goes away. That would help narrow it down. You could pull the water pump/power steering belt too as long as you didn't run the engine for very long; seems like it'd only take 15 or 20 seconds to tell you if the noise was still there.

[bbrown]

I doubt it's the cam bearings. Can't really tell from the video where the noise is coming from, though.

You could remove the V-belts to the A/C compressor and alternator and see if the noise goes away. That would help narrow it down. You could pull the water pump/power steering belt too as long as you didn't run the engine for very long; seems like it'd only take 15 or 20 seconds to tell you if the noise was still there.

Genius. I will try that in the morning. Thanks.

[sixsracing]

I guarantee it's not cam bearings, there isn't any. Camshaft runs
in the aluminum head, hopefully on a film of oil.

Could be water pump or alternator, still welcome to borrow the
stethoscope.

[bbrown]

I figured it out. Gull you are GENIUS . I took off the alternator drive belt and bang-oh no more squeal. So now I am in the market for a new alternator. I will hit all of the auto part stores to see what the going rate is for 90 Amp alternator so I can get the best deal (I know there will be a core charge that will be refunded upon return of my old alternator). I knew my alternator was weak and my tightening the belt to get a little extra juice out of it (which it did) caused the old bearings to finally go. Thank you all so very much for the help. My next project will be putting on a new tie rod on the passenger side of the car as it failed when I was trying to get my Maine State Inspection (they went over me with a fine tooth comb). The tie rod is on its way from GAP and I should have it next week. Once again thanks to all who have given me help in trying to fix the squeal.

[sixsracing]

Buster,
Heard about your plight so I called B+L auto parts over in Brewer. My cost is $92.54 + core and tax. You may be able to beat it but usually they do all right. Let me know if you want that one and I'll call them back. There is a rebuilder over in Brewer on Greenpoint road that I have used and he is pretty reasonable if you want to go that route.

[bbrown]

PM sent.

[sixsracing]

Hey, had another thought over the weekend. I have a customer who has rebuilt many Mk1's over the years and he thinks he has a used one. He is usually very reasonable selling parts, if your interested I can try to make it to Hampden this week and see if he has one. Probably talking $50.00 tops.