Hey Calimus and others....
My daughter's 92 cabby is being a real turd in the cold weather. Engine cranks fine, doesn't want to stay running. She has to put just the right amount of pressure (very slightly) on gas pedal to keep it running and has to let it heat up before pulling out. I had it tuned in the fall. Runs AWESOME after warming up.
Ohio starting to get cold now and starting to see 20 degrees and below now, with wind. If parked in the garage - starts like normal and is fine. But if she sits out in the parking lot at school - she's frustrating.
This is my first winter with the cabby. Are they so cold natured usually?
Thanks - Gerry
Doesn't want to start in cold
Moderators: kamzcab86, CalAltaDubber
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Metallicabby
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:50 pm
- Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
- Location: Tipp City, Ohio USA
Doesn't want to start in cold
If I could get my wasted days back, would I use them to get back on track...
2000 New Beetle
2000 New Beetle Turbo
1992 Cabby
2000 New Beetle
2000 New Beetle Turbo
1992 Cabby
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Calimus
- Grand High PooBah
- Posts: 2892
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 11:40 pm
- What year is your cabby?: 1989
- Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
- Location: Cartersville, Ga
a the 20 degree mark, I think many cis injected cars prollie have a slight PITA getting running.
However, my rocco always start on the first shot, doesn't matter how cold.
You might want to check the cold start injector and make sure it's spraying well. The great thing is that it's a 2 bolt pull, doesn't require any gaskets and it's a royal pain to get to.
Pull the injector, put it in a glas jar (make sure the car is cold for this BTW) and have your daughter try and start it without her touching the throttle at all. Also, pull the coil lead wire so that the engine doesn't attempt to fire with that gaping vac leak you just reated by removing the injector.
My guess it that it will spray fine, but it's always good to check. Chances are, it was tuned for warm weather and most cold weather, but like I said, at the lower temps, she might be a bit cranky, the car that is, not your daughter
It might need the fuel/air mix re-adjusted a tad, or even the timing adjusted just a bit.
BrianO and CalAlt have much more experience with Cis in the cold so I hope they will speak up here soon. I'm sure they have several more tricks up their sleeves.
However, my rocco always start on the first shot, doesn't matter how cold.
You might want to check the cold start injector and make sure it's spraying well. The great thing is that it's a 2 bolt pull, doesn't require any gaskets and it's a royal pain to get to.
Pull the injector, put it in a glas jar (make sure the car is cold for this BTW) and have your daughter try and start it without her touching the throttle at all. Also, pull the coil lead wire so that the engine doesn't attempt to fire with that gaping vac leak you just reated by removing the injector.
My guess it that it will spray fine, but it's always good to check. Chances are, it was tuned for warm weather and most cold weather, but like I said, at the lower temps, she might be a bit cranky, the car that is, not your daughter
It might need the fuel/air mix re-adjusted a tad, or even the timing adjusted just a bit.
BrianO and CalAlt have much more experience with Cis in the cold so I hope they will speak up here soon. I'm sure they have several more tricks up their sleeves.
16' Challenger ScatPack
05' Yamaha FJR1300
02' Honda VTX 1800C
05' Yamaha FJR1300
02' Honda VTX 1800C
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CalAltaDubber
- Frozen Guy in the Northern Country
- Posts: 2012
- Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:10 pm
- What year is your cabby?: 1987
- Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
- Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
- Contact:
Yes, I think the Cold Start Valve is the first place to check as William has suggested.
This is a Canadian thing, but is there a block heater installed? However I would assume that your daughter's school would not have a place to plug in (a necessity in this region).
Since you are in Ohio I think the humidity in your area might also be a factor. Your comment about starting good if parked in the garage makes me think that.
Being a '92 I assume that you have a Digifant system and not CIS. However I think William is on the right track.
What say you Brian, or Speedtek?
This is a Canadian thing, but is there a block heater installed? However I would assume that your daughter's school would not have a place to plug in (a necessity in this region).
Since you are in Ohio I think the humidity in your area might also be a factor. Your comment about starting good if parked in the garage makes me think that.
Being a '92 I assume that you have a Digifant system and not CIS. However I think William is on the right track.
What say you Brian, or Speedtek?
Phil
'87 Cabriolet, "Topless Bunny"
'88 Cabriolet, "Posh Bunny"
'04 Golf
'12 Golf Wagon TDI
'69 Manx type Dune Buggy (New Toy)
'87 Cabriolet, "Topless Bunny"
'88 Cabriolet, "Posh Bunny"
'04 Golf
'12 Golf Wagon TDI
'69 Manx type Dune Buggy (New Toy)
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Calimus
- Grand High PooBah
- Posts: 2892
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 11:40 pm
- What year is your cabby?: 1989
- Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
- Location: Cartersville, Ga
Oh man, I spaced, didn't even see that it was a digi cabby.
Could still be the cold start injector, could also be thermo-time switch also, I think the digi's still have those as well, I can't remember. We only had that dii cabby for a few month before trading it for the second rocco.
Brian needs to jump in here since he has a fleet of Digi cabby's
Could still be the cold start injector, could also be thermo-time switch also, I think the digi's still have those as well, I can't remember. We only had that dii cabby for a few month before trading it for the second rocco.
Brian needs to jump in here since he has a fleet of Digi cabby's
16' Challenger ScatPack
05' Yamaha FJR1300
02' Honda VTX 1800C
05' Yamaha FJR1300
02' Honda VTX 1800C
'92 should have DigiFant, not CIS, so there is no cold start valve to test.
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Let me be sure I've got the symptoms correct.
It tries to start, won't quite catch unless you give it a little bit of accelerator, then you let off the accelerator, it stalls. If you help it stay running with the accelerator and drive off, after a minute or so it idles fine.
Is that about correct?
If so, go straight to the idle stabilizer valve, it's right above the left (driver's) side of the valve cover. With key on, engine not running, put your hand on it, it should be felt to buzz or vibrate. Yours may be electrically failed, fairly common, even more common is simply gummed up. Take it off, pour carb cleaner inside, scrape carbon and gum off with some non-metallic scraper. I like a sharpened, hardwood chop stick, anything stiff that won't scratch soft metal will do.
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Because I'm too lazy to get after all the possible causes of high idle, I've disabled my idle stabilizer and so suffer the exact same symptoms it seems you've described.
I don't mind much, it reminds me of my old, twin carb, no choke Baja Bug with snow on the exposed engine, that thing wouldn't idle cold either. I'm overdue for TPS testing, I'm sure.
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I've seen comments on a couple other forums regarding the idle stabilizer, posters stated that the ISV adjusts mixture. That is totally false, if you should happen to read that somewhere else, ignore it.
The ISV is strictly an output device, it's an electronically controlled air valve that adjusts a throttle plate bypass passage for smooth, stable idle. It acts kind of like the fast idle cam on a carburetor without the enrichening function of the choke plate.
It controls some air flow only, that volume of air is part of the total ingested by the engine, mixture compensations as below.
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Mixture adjustments are made by the ECU after it considers input signals from the Coolant Temperature Sensor (CTS), the Intake Air Temperature Sensor (IAT) inside the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor, the MAF itself, the Oxygen Sensor and the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) or Throttle Position Switches, whichever yours is equipped with.
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If we need to go farther, it will be helpful to know if the car has DigiFant I or DigiFant II.
II has two wires in the loom to the injectors, all four wired in parallel, harness runs behind the valve cover, above the injectors. The ignition coil is a round, old style conventional looking affair. There are 2 micro-switches on the throttle, one on the back, one on the bottom.
I has five wires to the injectors, one common power wire, individual grounding signal wires for each injector. The ignition coil is a more modern looking affair, a transformer like appearance with a laminated steel external frame/core. No throttle switches, a Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) variable resistor (potentiometer) instead, mounted on the bottom of the throttle body.
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Whew, my typing finger is tired already, should have lit the Dragon.
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Let me be sure I've got the symptoms correct.
It tries to start, won't quite catch unless you give it a little bit of accelerator, then you let off the accelerator, it stalls. If you help it stay running with the accelerator and drive off, after a minute or so it idles fine.
Is that about correct?
If so, go straight to the idle stabilizer valve, it's right above the left (driver's) side of the valve cover. With key on, engine not running, put your hand on it, it should be felt to buzz or vibrate. Yours may be electrically failed, fairly common, even more common is simply gummed up. Take it off, pour carb cleaner inside, scrape carbon and gum off with some non-metallic scraper. I like a sharpened, hardwood chop stick, anything stiff that won't scratch soft metal will do.
---
Because I'm too lazy to get after all the possible causes of high idle, I've disabled my idle stabilizer and so suffer the exact same symptoms it seems you've described.
I don't mind much, it reminds me of my old, twin carb, no choke Baja Bug with snow on the exposed engine, that thing wouldn't idle cold either. I'm overdue for TPS testing, I'm sure.
---
I've seen comments on a couple other forums regarding the idle stabilizer, posters stated that the ISV adjusts mixture. That is totally false, if you should happen to read that somewhere else, ignore it.
The ISV is strictly an output device, it's an electronically controlled air valve that adjusts a throttle plate bypass passage for smooth, stable idle. It acts kind of like the fast idle cam on a carburetor without the enrichening function of the choke plate.
It controls some air flow only, that volume of air is part of the total ingested by the engine, mixture compensations as below.
---
Mixture adjustments are made by the ECU after it considers input signals from the Coolant Temperature Sensor (CTS), the Intake Air Temperature Sensor (IAT) inside the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor, the MAF itself, the Oxygen Sensor and the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) or Throttle Position Switches, whichever yours is equipped with.
---
If we need to go farther, it will be helpful to know if the car has DigiFant I or DigiFant II.
II has two wires in the loom to the injectors, all four wired in parallel, harness runs behind the valve cover, above the injectors. The ignition coil is a round, old style conventional looking affair. There are 2 micro-switches on the throttle, one on the back, one on the bottom.
I has five wires to the injectors, one common power wire, individual grounding signal wires for each injector. The ignition coil is a more modern looking affair, a transformer like appearance with a laminated steel external frame/core. No throttle switches, a Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) variable resistor (potentiometer) instead, mounted on the bottom of the throttle body.
---
Whew, my typing finger is tired already, should have lit the Dragon.
---
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Briano1234
- Whats that smell?
- Posts: 4105
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:45 am
- What year is your cabby?: 1992
- Do you own a Cabriolet?: No
- Location: Duluth, Ga
- Contact:
The biggest thing that I have seen besides the ISV or some call it the idle boost valve is the CTS sensor,,,, is you turn on your air conditioner, does the idle increase? if not then is as Ron says.... The ISV, if it increases then I would say the CTS.
That is the Blue sensor in the front of the head.... I have had one bad about each way you can have it go.... Crappy starting cold, crappy starting war, and crappy running.....
They are avail at the dealer, or napa... ech ts6112 8.49 and comes with the o-ring.
That is the Blue sensor in the front of the head.... I have had one bad about each way you can have it go.... Crappy starting cold, crappy starting war, and crappy running.....
They are avail at the dealer, or napa... ech ts6112 8.49 and comes with the o-ring.
Briano
Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click....
Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click....