Timing belt rubbing the tensioner

[VDubbinIt]

If you look in the top picture, follow the timing belt from the upper right corner down to the sprocket. You can see where it is up against the black part - that is where it's rubbing, like it's squished in there. That is the backside of what is in the picture with the big yellow arrow pointing to it.

I have no timing cover. There wasn't a bottom plastic one when I got the car so the metal one was taken off (it was rattling).

Also, I didn't have the timing belt changed. I only had them reset my ignition and engine timing because it was off.

[eric4321]

Are you saying you think the belt is rubing the crank pulley?? As Brian said run the engine briefly and see if the belt wanders around on the pulleys. I have never heard a rubing belt make a noise like you describe and agree with Brian sounds like the tensioner bearing is bad or belt is just to tight. Also runing without timing belt covers may look cool but you run a chance of a rock or debries geting into the belt and destroying it.

[VDubbinIt]

I'm aware in regards to the timing cover. I don't think it looks cool.. It just didn't have one. I have been meaning to order one but because I keep having work done it is last on my list.

I have watched the belt while the engine is running and I'm positive that it's because it's spinning against (what I now know to be) the vibration damper. From what I see in the Bentley there is supposed to be the lower timing cover between the vibration damper and the timing belt. There's not, instead, the vibration damper is too close to the sprocket and timing belt.

I circled the place where I'm talking about.

[Briano1234]

The timing cover is cut out so that the big pulley is not touching it at all, it wouldn't stop belt creep and a creeping belt would destroy it.

The pulley itself if the belt is rubbing against it, would have a bright metal finish (polished looking) and not the color that I am seeing on it.

In the below pic, is what a pulley does when belt is rubbing against it, it is the pulley on the right...



That is why I am tending to think that your Tensioner or Tensioner bolt is what is causing the issue, the tensioner bolt is a weak spot, as if the motor mounts go it can cause the tensioner to bounce, and the bolt bend a wee bit, and that will cause a tracking issue, and wear out the tensioner...

There is a Trick to changing the tensioner with out screwing up your timing.

Put the engine at 0tdc by the tranny.
Mark all the timing pulleys and belt with white paint on a tooth, so that the tooth and the bent are marked.
Loosen the tensioner. Then remove it carefully. Remove the stud that the tensioner is on and replace it.
Usually when a tensioner is bought there is a new stud in the box with a nut.

Now carefully place the tensioner in, and verify that the tranny is in 0TDC and all the marks still align.
Tighten to the proper tension and you should be good to go.

Now in regards to your shop setting the timing, they should of told you about this condition if it was an issue...
Then you could of paid them the 1 hour cost to change the tensioner, and set the time.

[VDubbinIt]

Thanks Brian. I did a google search and found a video of what a belt sounds like when it's too tight and it sounded exactly like that. I ended up just taking it back to them because like I said, I don't want to mess with the timing again after screwing it all up last time. They loosened the tensioner a bit and that did the trick. Thanks for all your help. I'm so glad to have my car drive-able again.

On a different note, what would cause the clutch to be noisy after letting off the gas pedal while it's engaged? I thought maybe the clutch cable had too much give so I was able to adjust it (luckily it was easier than I thought) but it's still making the noise.

[Briano1234]

what's the sound sound like?

[VDubbinIt]

It's like a light grinding noise. It's worse with the lower gears than the upper. I noticed it shortly after I had the clutch cable replaced (why I thought it was due to the cable not adjusted properly). It does sound quieter after adjusting the cable but it's still there. Could it be that maybe I need trans oil? It does sometimes grind going into 2nd before warming up. I read that changing the trans oil helps that.

[CalAltaDubber]

It's like a light grinding noise. It's worse with the lower gears than the upper. I noticed it shortly after I had the clutch cable replaced (why I thought it was due to the cable not adjusted properly). It does sound quieter after adjusting the cable but it's still there. Could it be that maybe I need trans oil? It does sometimes grind going into 2nd before warming up. I read that changing the trans oil helps that.

Oh Oh I don't like the sound of that.

I don't want to scare you, but I had similar symptoms some years ago.

The grinding noise got louder, I noticed it would stop when I pushed the clutch in.

I thought it was a bad clutch. It turned out the crank shaft had about 1/4 inch of play. It was only a matter of time before the engine would have failed. For all intent and purpose it had (it was still running but was about to fail at any time).

I had to replace the engine. This turned out to be cheaper than rebuilding. That was about twelve years ago.

I hope this is not what is happening to your car, but is something you might want to be prepared for.

[VDubbinIt]

Oye, that would be no good at all. Any way to fix the crankshaft if that is the case before it does permanent damage?

[CalAltaDubber]

Well, that's still a big repair. The crank is the heart of the engine. In my case one of the bearings had failed and that allowed the crank shaft to move. Over time it just got worse. The car was drivable right up until the discovery. It could have lasted 30 feet or 3000 km. But it was on the way to failure.

Again, I'm not saying this is going to happen to you. I actually hope it doesn't.

It could be as Brian pointed out that something is rubbing. So I do suggest looking for that first. I only mention this because it did happen to me. It is the only case I'm aware of so it is pretty rare.

Any way, the fix for my car was to either rebuild or replace the engine. In that case I opted for replacment.

The good news is that 8V VW engines like the JH are still pretty easy to find. Chances of finding one in great shape for a cheap price are good.

Again, I don't want to scare you. I just wanted to point out that it may be a possability.

[VDubbinIt]

Out of curiosity, what is a general ball park guess for engine replacement for an 86 cabby?

[Briano1234]

0-unlimited, as your budget allows.
If you can locate a spare engine, and rebuild it at your leisure.

How many miles are on your car.

The noise could be a transmission low on oil, and the grindage on shifting could be the bushing, links and adjustments, also dead mounts as well as the clutch itself.

If you can describe the noise more better we all can guess.....

Taking a stethoscope (mechanic) to listen to the various parts you can hear different noises and where they are coming from.

[CalAltaDubber]

Before you get all worried, check all the possabilities out. Like Brian said, it might just be something small. It's always better if you check out all the possabilities first. The fix my be simple, engine replacement is the last resort.

As far as replacement goes...

Well, you can find a donor car that runs good for a couple hundred Dollars and do the swap yourself. Extra parts from the donor can be sold to keep costs down.

I did a total rebuild on the engine for my project car two years ago. That cost me about $2,000 in parts and machining. The mechanic that did the job ( I helped) cost me another $300. I should mention that the mechanic is a friend who is retired and rebuilds engines to keep busy. I used the experience to learn more about the internal parts. I also had a couple of friends help with the removal and install.

I guess I could have spent more, but this way I got to know much more about the car.

[VDubbinIt]

I'm actually not completely sure about how many miles are on the car. The odometer is stopped at 140 and according to the maintenance records, I believe it stopped in 08. I've had the car for just shy of a year now and would guess it's somewhere around 170k maybe a bit more (I drive a lot).

I'm not super worried about the engine, I really think it may just be the tranny needing oil (which btw, what should I buy?). I was just wondering cause I've considered putting a 16v in it. I would have someone else do it considering this is my only car and I'm not even close to being skilled enough to do it myself.

[Briano1234]

Well if you guess 170, then it is probably time for a new clutch.