Anyone has/had a bent soft top mechanism?

[No Automatics!!]

Hi all, new here and to the world of Cabriolets (but certainly not new to VWs)

Recently purchased this 1990 Cabrio that was falling apart and has become my pet project (and our 4th running VW). One of the parts that was badly neglected is the soft top. I need to resolve this but before I jump into it I figured I asked around first in order to save myself headache (and possibly making things worse).

Here's the issue: the top doesn't sit square, which made winter driving tough due to the gap above the drivers side window. It is extremely difficult to open/close, likely due to rusted hinges in the mechanism. Possibly due to this I suspect that the po attempted to lower it and he forced it down from the driver's side (instead of using a second person to evenly lower/close it).

Wondering if this is an easy fix?

Been waiting for spring to try this and now that it's warm out I want to give it a shot. Figure the first step is to lubricate those hinges (start with WD40 then silicone based lubricant?). Then see if I can spot where the bent part is. I have zero experience with tops so not sure even where to look. So if anyone has had to deal with this I'd appreciate any advice you could give.

PS: soft top is in great condition, so I sure hope I don't have to replace the hole thing if I can help it. Thanks

[Briano1234]

Welcome to cabby hood.

Don't waist your time on wd-40. Use Marvel Mystery Oil. Oil the pivots and work a bit, then leave be for a day.
Where to lubricate?


Then remove the Struts from the rear frame. (behind it) both sides from inside the trunk


Before I suggest anything please take pictures of the following.

The "A" Pillar (windshield) with the top closed then the latches released.





But I need to see the Front shot so I can see the differences between the left and right side.

Take a picture of the top closed and the vent wing area like:



Then a pic of your door to frame for sag


Now for the Top install guide:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2224

I know that this is a lot, but if you want my honest opinion on if the frame can be saved I gotta see the requested pics.

Lastly with the top fully opened and latched at the back measure the distance between the Seat bottom, and the frame. (this is a gotta have)

[No Automatics!!]

Thanks for all the assistance with this. Where I didn't take the pics you requested as of yet, I took a few that I think should help illustrate where the problem may be at. First off, I did use white lithium on the hinges and now they work beautifully. But when I tried to close the top, the problem with the drivers side mechanism made it clear that something is off. I also took a rough video that I hope will help with identifying the problem.

Video can be seen here: http://tinyurl.com/ykau9sp

Video starts with the "good side" which is the passenger side. It shows me attempting to close the top and how there's plenty of distance between the mechanism and the cage (wherever that black bar is called that sits above and around the seats). Note that as I wiggle it, it seems nice and firm.

As I make my way around the car you see the mechanism resting atop the cage bar. Notice that as I attempt to close the top, the "elbow" of the mechanism hits the cage bar and doesn't slide over. It feels like it's sitting too low compared to the other side. As I wiggle the mechanism, it feels a bit loose.

That piece of rubber hanging won't fit through the tiny opening, which is the cause for the gap in the front window as seen in the pic below. Naturally not what you want in Calgary winter, not to mention the wind noise.

The vid and the pics shows that things aren't sitting square. Do you think you can tell based on the pics here? If not let me know which angles you'd like for me to take. I kinda think that possibly the portion that attaches inside the trunk (out of sight) may be a bit loose, as per the amount of wiggling on the drivers side. But I also noticed that if I lift the elbow joint (point that hits the cage bar) that it easily lifts up, making me believe that something somewhere isn't as tight as it should be.

I suppose that once I get the mechanism to sit square that I could then somehow fasten that loose piece of rubber back as it is critical for the proper seal of the window.


This front view (above) shows the gap on both sides as the mechanism hits the black bar on the drivers side while sitting about 1.5" above it on the passenger side.




Above is the side view showing the "elbow joint" of the mechanism as it hits the cage bar thing.




Above are different angles of the problem spot.




This last pic shows the difference on both sides with the top closed. Notice how proper it is on the passenger side versus the mess it is on the drivers side. Now imagine driving around at -25C like this and you'll realize why I want to find a solution to this.

[Briano1234]

No need for further pics.

Yep you have a bent frame. Unless you have access to a 20 ton press it is going to be easier to find a new frame at the
Yard of your choice.

I had a similar bend not as excessive as yours on my blue car. I spent 3 days trying to straighten it to get the kink out.
I gave up and used a spare frame that I had on a parts car I owned.

Trust me that is hardened "c" channel and it is very tough stuff.

[No Automatics!!]

Thanks for the confirmation, even if it isn't what I wanted to hear.
I sure won't be attempting to bend it back now that I realize it's almost impossible. Guess I'm now in line for a top.

Tell me this though: if I was to locate a top in poor condition but with a working mechanism (frame), is it fairly easy to swap the soft canvas/window portion? I ask cause my top is in good condition. Seeing how costly a complete top is, wonder if I could just switch the frame in my car. I'd imagine that most people looking for a replacement top is after the soft part, so my hope is to locate one that has a poor soft that I can get for a bargain.

[Briano1234]

Kammy on her site has a how-to done by Catherine on how to swap the frames.
www.cabby-info.com
Basically it is 4 bolts, and then 2 10mm bolts on the headliner, then the rear window pivots one per side Then you have to remove the headliner from the clamps
on the parcel shelf, and the rear cable has to come out.

For the rust around the "a" pillars www.rabbitparts.com has the replacement panels pre-shaped that you cut and weld in to place.

[No Automatics!!]

IT'S FIXED!!!

Yes, the roof now works! Frame isn't bent after all. Man, am I relieved.

For anyone that is facing my dilemma i hope this thread comes handy and that you try this first. I "fixed" mine completely by accident but let it a must do first step for anyone with a "bent" frame.

Today was a nice sunny day so my friend and I decided to lower the top. We couldn't really get the top to lower into the trunk area completely and we thought it was due to it being (as we had thought) bent. Dangerous to drive without being able to see behind you, so both him and I virtually jumped on the fully retracted top and pushed down on it as hard as we could (in hopes it would clip into place). We succeeded and the top was down all the way, after this bit of muscle power. As I dropped him at his place I wanted his assistance to put the top back up (closed) as it's easier with two people (again due to it not closing properly due to it being bent). To my complete surprise and amazement it closed evenly, without the drivers side hitting the rollbar as seen in the pics above. I was perplexed and in disbelief. But sure enough it worked fine the 5 or so times I tried it. Wow. Talk about a lucky break.

So there you have it. sometimes we make a big deal out of nothing. So to recap, for anyone that think you may have a faulty top, the above exercise may be just what it needs. Now let me point out that it is a far better idea to lubricate those hinges in order to prevent this type of headache. Just don't make the mistake I made by using while lithium. The stuff gets everywhere and is hell to clean.

A big thanks to Brian for his dedication to this forum and willingness to help.
Now that I have this huge hurdle out of the way it's time to work on the rest of this project and have it ready for summer.

[Briano1234]

I would check that your bolts are tight on the frame to the chassis. They are behind the black 1/4 panel kick plate. (hard plastic cover with the top latch knob

But hey I am occasionally wrong, I remember the first time like it was yesterday Feb 10, 1979....nuf said on that.

[No Automatics!!]

Don't think you're wrong, it did feel a bit loose. I was going to just leave it as I never put much thought into it. But thanks for the note, I'll now be sure to tighten those.

Still have that stupid white lithium to cleanup, some of which went onto the top (black side). Thinking of using Simple Green to clean the top as it leaves a bit of a shine. Do you agree with this? Do you use a different product to clean and keep the top in good shape?

[Briano1234]

Still have that stupid white lithium to cleanup, some of which went onto the top (black side). Thinking of using Simple Green to clean the top as it leaves a bit of a shine. Do you agree with this? Do you use a different product to clean and keep the top in good shape?

Dilute it and use a soft brush and plenty of rags as you are working it.

And I am sorry that you don't like automatics, as I have 2 cabbies that are auto's and love the crap outta them.

[kamzcab86]

Thinking of using Simple Green to clean the top as it leaves a bit of a shine. Do you agree with this? Do you use a different product to clean and keep the top in good shape?

I've used Simple Green full-strength on my Cab's top, but mine is white; just don't get Simple Green on the paint. Always, always apply a conditioner after cleaning the top: 303 Aerospace Protectant is the best stuff. For more info go to www.cabby-info.com.

[gull]

I said "I don't want an automatic" when I bought mine, but after a few years of clutch-bumping it in Seattle traffic I actually kinda wish it had a slushbox. Maybe I'm just getting old and lazy. Realistically I really didn't have much of a choice, though, automatic Cabriolets are hard to come by.

Maybe some day I'll trade up to an SL.

[CalAltaDubber]

Maybe some day I'll trade up to an SL.

Don't you mean "trade down"

[gull]

Maybe some day I'll trade up to an SL.

Don't you mean "trade down"

Well, it would mean two fewer seats.

[No Automatics!!]

Thanks for the tip on 303 Aero Protectant. Will pick one up soon. Looks like it's been years since anything was applied to my poor roof. Meaning it'll take a good amount of elbow grease to fully clean the thing.

As for autos vs standard: I always thought the main reason behind driving VWs is the fun factor. Add an auto tranny to the mix and you have a car, not a toy. Sorry but I insist on having fun behind the wheel (or handlebars, as per our 4 bikes from motocross race bikes to sportsbikes to scooters). And how is an auto on an underpowered 4cyl engine even useful? At least with a 5 speed you get to dictate what the car does, so even with a small engine, it can be fun (as long as you think of a Rabbit as a go-kart - which it is!). This of course, is one of at least a dozen reasons I can think of to justify staying away from autos. In fact I can't think of a single reason why auto is an advantage.

Call me a stereotype all you want and I'd show you that this is no longer the case. Reason being, I used to think they made automatics for women drivers. Heh, after I taught the wife to drive standards I can now confirm that she is the second biggest hater of automatics after me. So much for my finger pointing. I then started to think that autos were made for the very old. But something tells me that some time down the road both me and the wife will be putting this theory to waste as neither of us can imagine us ever switching to an auto.

So who does it leave? Well not going to go there (some of you may know where I live!)