Cold start tick-over problem

triplewhite · Post by **triplewhite** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:54 pm

Yes I have it unplugged, I have another one ready to go in at some point soon too after I get all this worked out...

Thanks for your time!

Post by **Calimus** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:07 am

It could still be injector related, an not just the cold start injector. Being that we have mechanical injectors, they can clog just a bit and really wreak havock with cold starting as well as normal running.

What you really want to do is order some viton injectors O-rings and have them ready. Then, pull one injector at a time and have a nice clear glass container, or pull all injectors and have 4 glass containers. Then, make a jumper for the fuel pump relay, this will cause the pump to stay running once you give the key a twist. dissconnect the coil wire to keep any start attempts at bay as well as keeping spark away from fuel vapor.

once the pump stays on, look at the spray patterns of the injectors. They should spray in a nice cone mist. If you see any dripping from the injector at all, the injector should be cleaned (read PITA) or replaced. If you have a bone yard nearby, I would raid any A1 VW's for their injectors and have some handy. You can then swap them out till you find one's that have a proper spray pattern. Put the new O-rings on and in the end if all goes well, you will have a much better running car for your troubles.

I'll see if I can find the info for he fuel pump relays jumper, though Kammy might have that on her site

Other things is look at for cold start issues.

1. Warm up regulator
2. Air/Fuel mix
3. Thermo Time Switch
4. Don't forget to check the cold start injector

Cold start injector should be tested with car in normal state with coild wire discconected and no fuel pump relay jumper. When you hit the key to start, you should get the same nice fine cone mist, but it should only run for a few seconds. If it continues and doesn't stop till you completely pull the key from the ignition, then you have found the problem. If that injector doesn't stop, it causes a flooding issue. and when cold, thats just as much of a kiss of death as no fuel.

gull · Post by **gull** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:56 pm

Calimus wrote:once the pump stays on, look at the spray patterns of the injectors. They should spray in a nice cone mist. If you see any dripping from the injector at all, the injector should be cleaned (read PITA) or replaced.

Also note that you should see no spray until you lift the sensor plate in the airflow meter. If any injectors dribble fuel with the sensor plate in its rest position there's a problem with that injector.

kamzcab86 · Post by **kamzcab86** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:51 pm

Calimus wrote:I'll see if I can find the info for he fuel pump relays jumper, though Kammy might have that on her site

Haven't added it yet (too busy playing with all the models -- Europe had too damn many!

), but here's a good, cheap switch how-to: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3612312 .

triplewhite · Post by **triplewhite** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:58 am

Ok, thanks again all. I've been so busy lately that I've just had to keep driving the car

and it's using a LOT of fuel which leads me to believe it must be a flooding issue of some sort. I will go through all these suggestions, hopefully this weekend, but I just wanted to add in the additional info in case that helps at all with the diagnosis...

Thanks again!

triplewhite · Post by **triplewhite** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:12 pm

Ok, some progress. I've checked the 5th injector, and it is behaving as it should. Good spray pattern, cutting off after 10-15 seconds.

This makes sense because the car always starts first time, and then dies, so it's obviously starting on the fuel that the 5th injector is providing, and then is dying because my regular injectors are not providing the follow up?? So next thing I'll check is the injectors. I looked on germanautoparts.com for replacements, but there are several different parts and seals, what exactly do I need to buy to replace them, if they are bad?

Thanks all, hope you're enjoying the weekend!

kamzcab86 · Post by **kamzcab86** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:58 pm

Definitely test the injectors before buying new ones; they aren't cheap, even at GAP!

If any are found to be faulty, here's what you need: http://germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/C ... /Fuel/95/1 (the injector puller tool on that page is really handy). New injectors come with seals already installed, so it's simply a matter of popping out the old injectors and installing the new ones. The only other things you might need are the injector holders and their respective seals. If the injectors are fine, you might want to order the injector seals http://germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/C ... /Fuel/94/1 and replace them (if they're the original seals, they'll be shot and are most likely causing slight vacuum leaks).

triplewhite · Post by **triplewhite** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:13 pm

Thanks! I'm going to test the pressure regulator next...

Post by **Briano1234** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:22 pm

Isn't there a micro-screen in the CIS crap that can get clogged? I remember reading that some where, as I are a more digifart kinda guy..... I defer all CIS to the masters..... but no one has mentioned that as of yet, and you know me I gotta have my 2 cents worth.

gull · Post by **gull** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:34 pm

Briano1234 wrote:Isn't there a micro-screen in the CIS crap that can get clogged? I remember reading that some where, as I are a more digifart kinda guy..... I defer all CIS to the masters..... but no one has mentioned that as of yet, and you know me I gotta have my 2 cents worth.

Yes, in the control-pressure regulator (sometimes called the "warm-up regulator.") If the screen is clogged it shows up as incorrect control pressure, generally too high because the CPR works by bleeding fuel pressure off into the return line. This will make the system run lean, especially when cold. Best way to diagnose this is with a fuel pressure gauge.

triplewhite · Post by **triplewhite** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:43 pm

ok cool, I'll check that out, my brother is sending me a reconditioned regulator anyhow so maybe that'll save time trying to clean mine... Thanks for your insights again, I think we're getting closer to solving this!!

gull · Post by **gull** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:44 pm

That's cool. I would really suggest you measure what the system pressure and cold and hot control pressures are before you put too much time and money into replacing parts, though.

triplewhite · Post by **triplewhite** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:26 pm

Ok thanks, I'll do that.

bLac K aBriOleT89 · Post by **bLac K aBriOleT89** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:29 am

triplewhite wrote:... Tornado sirens are sounding in Memphis at the moment, so I'll do it as soon as it's safe!

Thanks again for you time.

Hey neighbor! I had one tornado touching down about 2 miles from my house the one that took the warehouses on airways out...What part of town are you in? I'm having a similar issue, so if you want we can work together with the cabbies...

triplewhite · Post by **triplewhite** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:19 am

Yeh it was pretty crazy in places, i'm in midtown and we didn't see much but rain...

What are your symptoms? You are still CIS with the 89 right? I work in theatre so my schedule is totally screwy, but would be happy to try and troubleshoot with you when I get a spare day!

Do you get to midtown much? I think I've seen a metallic black cabby a couple of times!

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