Intermittent no spark

sixsracing · Post by **sixsracing** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:48 am

I did a bit of driving last week (700 miles or so) and in the middle of a nasty rain storm my car decided to stop running on a deserted stretch of highway. I had just stopped and filled my tank about 30 minutes back and believed I had picked up some water. I had the tow truck driver bring some gas line anti-freeze with him and I put that in before he towed me off. By the time he dropped my car I could start the car and it would run fine. So I drove it for another 3 days with no problem, yesterday it happened again, so I put some more gas line anti-freeze in it and waited, this time I had some help with me, so I had them try to start the car while I checked a few things. No spark. About 15 minutes later, I try again and the car starts. It's got a brand new Bosch coil in it, but it's running on original distributor and ignition module. I have an old Accel super coil that I've wired up for a spare, and I have an ignition module coming from a parts store. My questions are, if I need a distributor for a 90' Cabriolet with digifant does anybody in here have one and how much would you like for it? And, anybody have any other ideas what this might be? I can play with the wires while the car is running and it won't die, the car runs fine but it is starting a little rough. I know I will figure this out, but I have another 2 or so weeks of heavy driving and it's pretty cold up here to be trying to figure this out on the road. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Post by **Calimus** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:45 pm

Not sure if I would worry about the Dizzy itself. I'd look a bit closer at the cap and rotor. Could also be the ICM, but since you mentioned rain, sounds like you might have gotten some moistrue under the cap which will cause a no spark or intermitten spark at best.

Pull the cap and look in there, see if you have any carbon trails or if the contacts look worn out. Same goes for the rotor, make sure it's not all nast looking. If so, replace the rotor and cap and give things a try. Beats the price of a new dizzy.

Post by **SoCal_Cabby** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:39 pm

if you get water in you distributor you can spray it with WD-40 (it displaces water)

sixsracing · Post by **sixsracing** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:25 pm

Cap and rotor are less than a year old and are Bosch. Yes, I did check for moisture in the cap and I cleaned the rotor. No difference. It also runs fine once the spark returns, so I don't think it's a cap and rotor or a moisture problem.

Post by **SoCal_Cabby** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:58 pm

did the coil get wet?

sixsracing · Post by **sixsracing** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:13 pm

No, the coil is behind the intake manifold, high and dry. (New Bosch) I have a spare all wired up now, all I have to do is change five wires and I have a completely different coil to run on. I hope it's the coil, I can have that warranteed.

sixsracing · Post by **sixsracing** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:00 pm

Hasn't happened again in about 700 miles. I'm beginning to think that I was in daylight too bright to see the spark. I can't imagine putting this kind of mileage on a car and not have an intermittent problem rear it's ugly head again. I'm even doing the same kind of driving as when it happened, high speed 80-85 mph in the rain, nothing.

bmack · Post by **bmack** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:39 am

I have also seen a similar problem on the old cis cars, What i find is the problem with a lot of them is the ground to the ICM. It gets brittle due to engine heat because its located close to the fuel distributor and picks up a lot of heat. It will develop little breaks in the wire, and the resistance goes way up, and you drop ground. NO ground, NO spark from ICM. Hope this helps?

sixsracing · Post by **sixsracing** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:48 am

ICM is up by the wiper trans. and has a heat sink built in. All the grounds are clean and dry but I haven't replaced the wire or connector. Of course it hasn't happened again either. Thanks for the tip.

bubster007 · Post by **bubster007** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:01 am

Hey, I am a newbee to your forum. I have a 91 Cabby that basically has been totally rebuilt. New O2 sensor ,new exhaust, suspension, brakes, all belts, seals, hoses, gaskets, filters, fluids, injectors, waterpump, starter, alternator...I enjoy working on my Cabby and learning from other Cabby owners. I have a problem with my Cabby that is probably typical. She ran perfect until the other day. I was at an idle and she just turned off. She would crank and crank but she did not even act like she wanted to fire at all. I called a tow. I got her in my garage and I looked over everything. Nothing obvious. To my surprise, she fired right up. I decided to drive her to the store. The first stop sign at an idle she died again.

I took the entire ground system out of the engine compartment , cleaned all the surfaces then reinstalled my ground wires and cables. I have gold plated battery connections and I did not find any ugly or bad grounds. I then took every electrical connection apart, one at a time, and used contact cleaner. I did not find any corrosion or any bad connections. I double checked the vacuum lines, I threw the cap and rotor button away and replaced them. The old ones were less than a year old. The plugs and wires were installed at the VW dealership less than a year ago. I cleaned the inside of the distributor quite well. She still just cranks and cranks but will not fire at all as if the timing belt had jumped. The belt is new (6 months) and so is the belt tensioner. The belt is plenty tight (if anything, too tight).

I am guessing the Hall Sensor inside the distributor is bad. The dealer says $250.00 for the whole distributor but the sensor (alone) is not available. That is not much more than an aftermarket Hall Sensor so I would basically be paying to not have to hassle with the RR of the sensor.

Since this problem occured both times at an idle, should I consider another sensor first? What is typical of the Cabby? Surely, someone can say, "Yes, it is ... and it is quite common". I am looking to met other Cabby owners in The North Metro Atlanta Area.

I am a 50 year old, single, straight guy that drives a cheerleadermobile (when it is running)

.

sixsracing · Post by **sixsracing** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:20 am

Welcome to the forum. Your looking in the right places, unfortunately you have arrived at the dreaded decision phase. The first thing I would do is make sure you have around 11 volts at the distributor. There is a 3 prong connector on the side of the distributor, pull it off and put a mutlitester on the outside wires, you should have around 11 volts between these two wires, if not, you have either a break in the wrie harness or most likely a bad module. To find the break, leave the tester connected to the two wires, push and pull all the exposed harness in the engine compartment you can find. If the break is there the meter will all of a sudden show correct voltage. If this doesn't work, try to find someone else with a Digifant Golf, Jetta, Cabriolet that will be willing to let you try their module in your car. Almost all the modules will start the car, they just have different ignition curves. If you have correct voltage at the distributor and have no spark, you are most likely correct in your assumption that you need a distributor. $250.00 sounds like way too much money though. I imagine you can get a rebuilt for around half of that, and a used on for around $50.00. Hope this helps and good luck.

Post by **kuklaki** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:14 am

bubster007 wrote: I am looking to met other Cabby owners in The North Metro Atlanta Area. I am a 50 year old, single, straight guy that drives a cheerleadermobile (when it is running) .

Finally, something I can help with!! You came to the right place...Calimus and I live in Cartersville, which is about 25 mi. North of the Kennesaw area.

He is in the final stages of getting my Cabby on the road, if you want to get together with us sometime, just let me or Calimus know!!

bubster007 · Post by **bubster007** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:10 pm

Hey , thanks for the replies and the warm welcome. I sent an e-mail to kuklaki and I hope to hook up with them soon. Also, I saw Sixer's red Cabby and their VW van up in Maine. Sweet set up. Killer garage and what a lifestyle. God has blessed you and gave you good taste.

I finally gave up and sent my Cabby to the hospital (aka Stealership). I told them to put a new distributor and a new mass air flow sensor on her. There are a few other items I wanted checked and fixed but when she gets out of the hospital she should be mechanically brand new. I let a friend (who really need the cash work on my car, last year). He left the "key" out of the crankshaft pulley. I believe they call it a woodriff key. Anyhow, the car ran great but sometimes she was simply sick. Of course I double checked everything. I took it to the same stealership and I gave the car to the services writer. I told him to drive it everyday and take it home. The car dynoed perfect each time but came back on the hook after the road tests. Every mechanic had a turn at her and finally one mechanic decided to dissassemble the entire car until he found the problem. He found the key missing and my car has run great until now. Now the mechanics are all standing around her again deciding who is the poor soul that has to figure out the latest riddle. They will probably dissassemble the entire car and put it all in a box then tell me they couldn't figure it out.

bubster007 · Post by **bubster007** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:08 am

Update: 1991 Cabby: Ignition Control Module and the Hall Sensor. The mechanic explained and proved to my satisfaction that they were both bad. I was there when they checked the Mass Air and it was fine. The computer shows every sensor to be fine and working properly. They checked my car from top to bottom and said it was a good learning tool for the newer technicians. The older techs showed the young bucks a few tricks. One kid said, "We don't get many of these Rabbits in here". I was going to tell him that technically it is not a Rabbit and that he should not be working on a car that he couldn't identify, but I didn't. I told him the reason you never see one is because if you own one then you learn to fix it yourself or go bankrupt. Even knowing how to fix them and you still stay broke. I am going to put a 25 cent slot by the door handle and you will have to pay each time you get in or out. Then when I need repairs I'll just take the doors up to the parts counter and shake them until enough falls out.
Thanks for your replies and it is a pleasant surprise to make your aquaintaince,