Another Brake ?

Post suspension issues and questions here

Moderators: kamzcab86, CalAltaDubber

kda339
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:53 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1987
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Another Brake ?

Post by kda339 » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:21 pm

I have a complete A2 jetta 16v that I am transplanting parts into my cabbie. I want to use the front spindels so i can run the bigger brakes with rotors. However the ball joint is too small. Is there a ball joint that I can swap in to do this mod? Tried the one from the Jetta but the middle bolt goes in to far vs. the one that is already rivited in now. Also am I going to run into problems with the rear disc brakes also? I just don't want the motor from this car I want to use as much as I can before I tote it off to the wrecking yard. Please help!
'87 Cab 2.0 16v

User avatar
Calimus
Grand High PooBah
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 11:40 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1989
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
Location: Cartersville, Ga
Contact:

Post by Calimus » Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:02 am

very good question. I've not had the pleasure of being intimate with A2 suspension as of yet, however, I know where an A2 jetta is sitting and I should get a chance this weekend to go look at it.

Right off I would think that you can use the lower A-arm from the jetta including ball joint and replace you A1 cabby A-arm, though untill I look at it, I can't be sure it will fit. I have a spare A1 A-arm that I'll take with me and see if they match up.

The other issue is will the A2 knuckle (spindle) mate up with the A1 strut tower. I'll see what I can figure out with that as well. If I remember, I'll grab my camera and take some pics to post as well to aid in solving your problem. As for the rear, doing a drum to disk conversion will mean using the rear spindles as well as swapping out the lines themselves.

It's a very good question and something I wouldn't mind looking into as well since it may be a better swap for me to do on the wifes cabby at some point incase I can't find all my 16v rocco brake system.
12' A6 3.0T Prestige
05' Yamaha FJR1300
02' Honda VTX 1800C

kda339
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:53 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1987
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Post by kda339 » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:32 am

Well to save you the trouble of looking, the control arms are different. Way different, the Jetta one is setup with the sub assy that holds the motor/ trans and power rack assy. As for the strut tube it is a little different on where the knuckle bolts up, it's wider. However all of this can be converted over. Not the whole strut assy, but just the lower tube. Another thing I noticed today was the portion where the tie rod bolts to is angled, were on the cab it comes out straight. So I am thinking this set up might not work. I am still working with this and I'm not giving up just yet. I am sure that there is a way somewhere and I want to look at all possiblities first. So bear with me it looks like this may be the first for everyone.

I was able to use the rear disc setup off of the 89 Jetta GLI I have. The only thing that I had trouble with was the bottom bolt for the caliper. It would be wise to have a disc grinder to shave some of the lip that is on the trailing arm near the wheel. But I got it to bolt right up with no problems. Now comes the big question I have. The jetta has a distrabution block that the metal brake lines go into with a lever and a spring on it. Looks like a valve that would work more so with the postion/level of the trailing arm. Is there a way to convert this to my set up? or should I opt to leave it behind and get the techtionics proportioning valves that connect to the master cylinder? I am not sure if the Rocco 16v has this type of setup could you share some light.

Thx for the help. I'll be back at it in the morning to see what I can do.
'87 Cab 2.0 16v

kda339
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:53 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1987
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Post by kda339 » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:18 pm

Ok in my journey today I found nothing and nobody that could help me in my search for a ball joint to make this setup work. So I am going to try and figure it out by doing it myself. I am finding that here in Salt Lake City not to many peeps are willing to try and hop up the Veedubs what a bummer. So far there are Four people that I know of that actually do stuff with there cars, but none of them go out on a limb and try anything to the extreme.

So here is some brief pic to help everyone understand what I am talking about. If this works I'll post more pic's tomorrow with the complete write up as to what I did. ( wish me luck)

Image

Ok this is the Jetta control arm and it won't work, it bolts differently to the frame.

Image

and the Cabbie control arm with the ball joint still there


Image

Jetta's ball joint verses the Cabbie one



Image

The Jetta's ball Joint, look very close you can see it is much bigger. I am going to tap a hole in the Cabbie control arm for the middle bolt. I am thinking this is going to work. the control arm on the cabbie looks hollow up the middle so if it doesn't then hey off to the wrecking yard again.

Image

The Cabbie's spindle is on the left and the Jetta's one is on the right. Notice the difference where the tie rod end bolts and look at the differece where the brake caliper bolts. Also where the strut bolts is bigger too (19mm bolts vs. 17mm bolts). I find this not to be a problem with the tie rod ends. I find this to be a benefit as to when the car is going to be lowered. The Jetta's power rack sits on a sub-frame assy which is lower then the Cabbie's rack. It is aprox about a 1.5 inch difference so when lowering the car it will put it back into perspective.

Image

This is what my car looked like when I first got it then.....

When I got it home and find out that the person you bought it from wasn't so truthful then you end up stripping the car because you find things are so micky moused it ain't funny. The wooos of EBAY.

Image
'87 Cab 2.0 16v

User avatar
Calimus
Grand High PooBah
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 11:40 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1989
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
Location: Cartersville, Ga
Contact:

Post by Calimus » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:40 pm

Sounds like you have things fairly well figured out and I'm very interested in this modification. Looking forward to seeing more of how you tackle this. As the saying goes, there is nothing that is impossible with enough heat, a big enough hammer, the cash, the time and one stubbon SOB to carry the job through.

Good luck with it, can't wait to see more.
12' A6 3.0T Prestige
05' Yamaha FJR1300
02' Honda VTX 1800C

kda339
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:53 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1987
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Post by kda339 » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:08 pm

opps another questions for you all. Looking through some past post I am curious to theses shims that I am suppose to need for a rear disc conversion. Can someone enlighten me.

thx -K-
'87 Cab 2.0 16v

User avatar
Calimus
Grand High PooBah
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 11:40 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1989
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
Location: Cartersville, Ga
Contact:

Post by Calimus » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:47 am

If I'm not mistaken, the shims are only to correct the alignment in the rear beam if it's bent. If your beam is straight then you shouldn't need any shims. I can't recall there being any on several 16v rocco rear beams that I've torn apart.
12' A6 3.0T Prestige
05' Yamaha FJR1300
02' Honda VTX 1800C

User avatar
Briano1234
Whats that smell?
Posts: 4016
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:45 am
What year is your cabby?: 1992
Do you own a Cabriolet?: No
Location: Duluth, Ga
Contact:

Post by Briano1234 » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:19 am

The shims are also to correct for proper alignment of all 4 wheels. My old Diesel had to have the rears shimmed a bit after 15 years. The rear axel was never bent, but I did replace all the bushings and I think that is what put it out in relation to the front.

The shims are nothing more than sheet tin, or aluminun placed behind the rear axle to true it up. Some places loosen the bolts and use tapered shims to bring it in to spec.

You can do the same by snaping to parallel lines on the floor of your garage at the center point of your wheels. Getting the lines perfectly parallel and then snapping is a must. Push the car onto the marks and measure the camber against the floor with a wood protractor and measure the distance from the leading edges of your tires to the rear. Also measuring the front of the tires center tread to the rear center of the tread tells you how far off you are. Getting the front to back tread parallel and at 90 degrees to the chassis is crucial to aligning your car.

Take a look at a alignment rack and you will see it is all about geometry on how the car sits on the ground. Most Books give you all the adjustment specs that you need to set it correctly.

String and a Laser level can assist you in getting the proper front tire to rear tire alignment.

I have made it sound a little too simple, because it is all geometry. Setting the alignment of your car can be done with basic tools, a little time and sweat.

Getting the geometry correct after replacing parts is easy and can prevent that quick trip to the alignment shop.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:

kda339
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:53 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1987
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Post by kda339 » Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:59 am

Cool beans thanks for the info. I'll look more into it when I get the car on the road and worry about it then. I'll try and give your alinment suggestion a try, so far I have the time to do it.
'87 Cab 2.0 16v

kda339
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:53 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1987
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Post by kda339 » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:14 pm

whoop ass! I got the Jetta's spindle to work. Did not have to go to the wrecking yard for anything. I was able to use the ball joint, spindle with the brake caliper, the brake rotor, and the strut tube, still had to use the A1 strut bearing plate thou. I would really like the old style plates so I can run the poly strut mount. Not a very big deal as it all came together very nicely. I'll post pics soon as I forgot my camara during this great feat. Give me after the weekend so I can do the other side and get everyting bolted up so I can take pics of the whole front end at one shot.
'87 Cab 2.0 16v

User avatar
Calimus
Grand High PooBah
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 11:40 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1989
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
Location: Cartersville, Ga
Contact:

Post by Calimus » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:17 pm

very cool, looking forward to pics and a review of how it rides when your done.
12' A6 3.0T Prestige
05' Yamaha FJR1300
02' Honda VTX 1800C

kda339
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:53 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1987
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Post by kda339 » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:25 pm

Oh it'll be awhile for the actual street part, The car is completely gutted right now I mean completely. See

Image

So I'll keep you posted
'87 Cab 2.0 16v

kda339
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:53 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1987
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Post by kda339 » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:38 pm

Well I am saden to say that all my work has failed. :cry: :cry: :cry: When I finished the driverside then moved to the passenger side of the car I realized that I really goofed things up really good. And found out that my evil twin :twisted: spoke way too soon. The A2 setup will not work due to the tie rod end and the way it bolts up. The A1 spindel the tie rod portion of the spindle is push out futher. The A2 spindle is pulled in closer towards the power rack. After it was bolted up I realized that the spindel was being pulled in way to much. There was no way I could have adjusted this so the wheels would be straight. So To all, if you want the big brake setup on your ride you have to find another setup. My setup didn't work it failed me big time. Now I am stuck with 9.4 in brakes in the front. DAMN IT!!!!!! However I did get the rear disc on with no problems. All I need is two new proportioning valves so the calipers will work with my setup. So I guess I wasn't a total failure. Now since that's done on to electrical.
'87 Cab 2.0 16v

User avatar
Calimus
Grand High PooBah
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 11:40 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1989
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
Location: Cartersville, Ga
Contact:

Post by Calimus » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:25 pm

No chance of swapping out to the A2 tie rods I take it? Even if not, it was a great effort and maybe worth looking into again at some point later in life. You were too close for there not to be a way to make it work.

At any rate, at least the rear brakes will work for you and that in itself will help in the brakes Dpt. Scirocco 16v front brakes will definitly work, maybe you can trade the jetta setup for a rocco setup.
12' A6 3.0T Prestige
05' Yamaha FJR1300
02' Honda VTX 1800C

kda339
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:53 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1987
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Contact:

Post by kda339 » Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:52 am

Taking your advice and now moving to the tie rod ends.

I have finished dismatling the Jetta for every last part I could use. It has been brought to my attention that the inner tie rod end need a speical tool to remove. So not having that tool right now I pulled the whole sub frame out of the Jetta and kicked it to the corner so I have it to do the transplant.

Along with your advice and the advice from a shop here in SLC the swap should work....

So, I am back on the mission of converting the cabbie to a 10.4 brake and spindel conversion from an A2 Jetta. :D

Give me some time the kids are now outta school :twisted: and I now get to play MR. MOM for awhile until they go back. :twisted: So the Cabbie won't get as much time as I would like.
'87 Cab 2.0 16v

Post Reply