Top Replacement

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PDX Cabby
The Living Bentley Manual
Posts: 523
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 12:51 am
What year is your cabby?: 1985
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
Location: Portland, OR
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Top Replacement

Post by PDX Cabby »

Cabriolet Top Replacement Experience
Forrest King

Warning: Any attempt to repair you car may cause problems. I am not responsible for your car, your errors, or your economic losses resulting from your use of this information.

Ok folks, I drive a 1991 Cabriolet that originally came with a dark blue canvas top. After sitting for a few years while the previous owner was inn possession, the top was a bit dilapidated. The canvas was torn left to right all the way across the top at the first fold point (about 1 foot aft of the header). I shopped around in my region and was quoted astronomical prices for the replacement of just the outer ‘shell’, anywhere from $675 at an upholstery shop to $1300 at Brad Noe VW in Tulsa, OK. After peaking with one of the local upholstery shops on the phone I stopped by to check out their operation and let them see the tops actual condition. This is when I decided to replace the top myself- the guy was going on and on about how much experience you need to do this repair and how VW tops are by far the most difficult, and then I met his shop help. The shop help was 17 and was in desperate need of some education, he had been working for the guy for 2 weeks and was in the process of replacing a Mustang top- alone.

PREPARATION (physical and mental)

Some required knowledge: The VW top is held on by three cables, one at the back and two on the sides. The side cables must be replaced and are available at your local VW Dealership for about $11 US. The rear cable can be reused and you will most likely want to do this as it costs $93 US at your dealer. The best place to learn about the VW top is the replacement top. I suggest you lay it out on your living room floor and just take it in for a few minutes. You will notice that there is no hole for the rear window, DO NOT TRY TO MAKE ONE NOW. You will also notice that there is a ‘pocket’ at the front of the new top, this is where the top is slipped over the frame on your car, it is the attachment point for the front of the car. You will see a thick bead stitched into the rear of the rear of the replacement top, this is where the rear cable runs and is the attachment point for the rear of the top. The sides have slots that run ½ the length of the entire top, or the area over the windows if you can picture this. These slots are for the side cables, these cables and their accompanying springs are the attachments for the sides of the top.

I searched locally and on the internet for other people who had replaced VW Cabby tops themselves and found a few great references, I will include these links at the end. After viewing their reports I created a list of tools that I would need, it included all of these:
· Screwdrivers, Phillips and flat
· Utility Knife (or razor)
· Craftsman 9mm/10mm offset ratcheting wrench (pt # 43367)
· Wooden clothespin
· Spray Glue, 3M or other reputable brand, get the strongest bond.
· Pliers, needle nose preferably
· Electric staple gun (with staples and extension cord if needed)
· Roll of nylon string- not cotton and not rope
· Miscellaneous other hand tools, including wrenches and sockets.
A critical tool in the replacement of my top was the Craftsman Offset Ratcheting Wrench, it brings a certain amount of ease to a horribly difficult situation. Read On.

To start, remove the lower bench of the rear seat, it is held in by 2 screws on the front lip of the seat- that’s all. Remove the package tray, that is the piece covered in carpet that hides the contents of your trunk. Fold down the rear seat, you do this by pulling the knob hidden under the trunk door and then pulling the strap located on the side of the rear seatback near the top. Leave the trunk lid open. The seat back should fold down nearly flat. Removing all of these components will create more working area in your car and give you places to contort your body while attempting to remove the rear cable. Now look under the package tray sides (the parts that remained in the car), you will see the headliner is stretched over some points to hold it tight. Grasp the headliner and pull is firmly but gently in the direction of the points to remove it. After you do this to all of the points the headliner will hang loosely from the top. Roll down all of the windows. Pop the latches for the top but do not fold the top yet.

Now is a good time to look at the side cables of your top- study them, make drawings, take pictures- whatever you need to do in order to create that same setup later.

REMOVAL OF THE LID

Note: In this section I am going to cover the removal of the top. The VW Cabby top goes on in exactly the same manner that it comes off, so once again study, take notes or take pictures. I found the best way was just to look at how the pieces worked and understand the system of parts.

First, the rear window must be removed. This is a very simple use of brute strength. Crawl inside the car and have a friend stand outside of the car at the rear window. Place the palm of you hand, with as much surface area of your hand contacting the glass as possible, on the rear window at the upper corner. PUSH. The glass will slowly start to come out of the seal and will come right out after you release the initial hold of the seal. Have your buddy catch the window if you become overzealous in your pushing efforts, otherwise have him gently tug at the glass to free it. Now pull the window seal out and set it aside. Get your flat head screwdriver and remove ALL of the staples that hold the old top to the rear window frame (yes folks, they stapled it together). Once you remove the staples you can look around the inside of the top- study up.

Next, remove as much of the top as you can with your handy utility knife. To remove the center section would be more than enough. Remember you are throwing this old top away, so feel free to sacrifice it in order to learn as much as you can. I suggest cutting it from about 1 foot behind the header, down the seams along each side, and across the back just below the rear window frame.

At the front of the top there is a metal bar that crosses the header, it has some brackets that hold the corners on also. Start by removing the brackets at the corners and placing the hardware in plastic zipper bags, or visually separating them on a counter or other work surface. Remove the corner brackets and then remove all of the screws holding the header bar. You should then be able to pull the header bar off, taking care not to bend it. Now move you focus to the sides of the top. You will notice that there are rubber seals covering the area where screws would be. These rubber seals slide out of their brackets, but be very careful as they are no longer available from the dealer and are very expensive to locate. Once you have slid out all three of the seals on each side you will see the metal brackets that hold the seals and you should be able to see the screws that hold the bracket to the top frame. On some cars the screws were covered with tape that makes a sticky mess when you try to remove it. But alas, the screws must be removed. After you remove all of the brackets you will then notice that the top is also glued to the frame, notice how this is done because we will be putting the replacement top on in the same fashion. Peel the top off of the frame and look around inside. Notice the spring tensioners for the side cables. Now is a good time to remove the side cables. Use your needle nose pliers to remove the cables at the front and then slip them off at the rear spring. Pull the springs out, but notice where they came from. You will need these old side cables to make the new side cables the correct length- do not cut them or throw them away, you may have to cut the top to get them out. Now you should be able to remove most of the top, if you cut the top like I suggested above you will be able to remove everything except the last few inches of the rear. These last few inches of the rear are where the cable is holding the top on. This cable is inside of a lip that is formed into the car chassis, the top is laid over the lip, and then the cable over the top. The cable is pulled tight and it sucks the top into the groove created by the lip- a neat little setup by Mr. Karmann. To remove this cable you have to crawl inside the car and lie on your back. The end of the cable is located behind the rear window and down inside the body of the car. Use the 10mm ratcheting offset wrench to loosen the nut on the end of the cable. If you intend to reuse this cable it is imperative that you use a backup wrench while loosening this cable (and when tightening it later) otherwise you will twist the end off of it and add 100 dollars to your bill. Once the cable is loose at one end switch to the other side and remove that nut, it should be easier now. After removing both nuts retreat to the outside of the car. Drink a Dos Equis, you deserve it. Pull on the last scrap of the top that is still on the car, you will be pulling out the cable also. Notice how the cable lays over the top and how these two fit into the groove below the lip- study, take pictures, whatever. You have now removed the entire top. Place the rear cable in a safe area with its corresponding nuts. Boy you are screwed if it starts raining.

REPLACEMENT OF THE LID

You are more than half way done, if you have taken the time to observe the methods used to attach the top you will have no problems from here on out.

Now take the top and put it over the empty frame. Do not try to put the frame in the pocket, or do anything right now, just place the top on the car and visualize what you are doing. It looks nice doesn’t it.
To start the operation you will need to put the top back on the ground. Go find the side cables you saved from earlier, and the new cables you bought at the dealership. The new cables came straight (not pre crimped). Take this time to put a crimp on the ends of the cable and fish a string or fish tape thru the slot in the replacement top. Tape the end of the new cable to the fish tape and pull it thru. Let the cable sit there quietly for now. Place the new top back on the frame, this time seat the frame in the pocket of the top. Now is the time to attach the header bar. Be careful and try to get the front bead of the top to sit flat against the windshield frame. If you mess up don’t worry, you can re do this later to get the front edge of the top to seat correctly. You will most likely be doing this while standing on your front seats with the top in a half open position. Leave the top in this half open position and head to the back of the car. You are now going to thread the rear cable through the slots in the top and into the body of the car. This step is frustrating because the top can pop out of position and be generally difficult, if your helper has not consumed all of your beer use him to hold the top and cable in place. You may find it easier to thread the cable through the top on one side only and then slip inside of the car and screw a nut on the end of the cable just a few threads. You can then return outside and continue trying to line up the top and the cable. The idea here is to have the cable sit just above the bead on the rear of the top and directly over the groove. If you can get this to line up you are doing great. You will then want to slip the other nut onto the other end of the cable (if you have not already done this in the course of trying to line it all up). Using the backup wrench and the ratcheting 10mm put a small amount of tension on the cable. The Physics of tightening the cable to draw the top into the groove are all wrong. YOU WILL BREAK THE CABLE IF YOU TRY TO PULL THE TOP INTO THE GROOVE BY SIMPLY TIGHTENING THE CABLE. Use the end of the wooden clothespin to get the top and cable into the groove, a rubber mallet will help too, but don’t tap the clothespin hard enough to tear the top. You can also position the clothespin on the cable, then you have to worry a little less about tearing the top, but it requires more force to seat the cable if you choose this manner. I suggest you start in the center and work your way to each edge. Have your friend keep an eye on it, too, and make sure the top does not go on crooked. Once the entire cable/top/groove system is seated you will need to return to the inside and tighten the 10mm nuts, using the backup wrench, tighten this up until you are worried. The tighter the better, unless you get it too tight and then you have to buy a new one… The sides and rear should all tuck in nicely as you tighten this cable, have your now drunk friend gently use the clothespin to insure it all fits. Now, drink a few Dos Equis yourself, that nut on the cable is a bear. (you should be at 3 beers in about 4 hours so far.)
Now is the time to close the top. You want to make sure when it latches that it pulls the wrinkles out of the top and looks good. The sides should still be hanging loose at this point. Look at the front of the top, where the bead of the top contacts the windshield frame. You want that bead to be flush and uniform, so get your Phillips screwdriver out and make a few adjustments and see if you can get it to look nice.
The sides are relatively easy. If you did the rear cable then you can do heart surgery and ice sculpture- the sides should be a piece of cake. Attach the side cables to the front attachment point and then re-assemble the spring tensioner assembly. Refer to your pictures, notes or beer bottle diagrams at this point to ensure correctness.

Glue time. Get the upholstery glue that you purchased, it should be a strong glue that has a high release point temperature- 3M is good, but avoid their 77 and Super 77. Use a piece of cardboard to shield the interior of your car and spray small amounts of glue to the frame rails. You are applying glue to the part where the seals and seal brackets mount, NOWHERE ELSE. After you apply the glue pull the flaps on the top around the frame and stick them to the glue. Follow the Glue Manufacturers directions in regards to if you should place glue on each piece to be assembled, or just on one. Once you have satisfactorily positioned each of the three flaps you are going to install the seal mounting brackets. These brackets act as a clamp to ensure that nothing flops loose at 75 MPH. You will attach all of the brackets making sure to place them in the correct position and side from which they originally came; NO, they are not all the same. Once you have attached the brackets you will want to use the utility knife to remove the excess material on the inside of the bracket. Taking your time and cleaning up really pays off here, under the hood it doesn’t matter too much, but in upholstery work cleanliness counts towards functionality.

The seals slide into the seal brackets. Using Vaseline or another lubricant is helpful. Silicone spray is always a good bet when trying to lube rubber parts. Take care in replacing the rubber seals, think $$$$. I have seen a used set of these sell for $200+.
After you have replaced the side rubber seals and are happy with the way the front fit you are going to want to trim the material from beneath the header bar. Take care to not cut through the headliner and really foul things up. You should be able to at this point, close the top and get in the car. You should be able to roll up the windows, and sit in peace within the confines of your car and drink another Dos Equis.

While you are consuming the adult libation you may notice that you can’t see jack out the rear window. This is because the rear window is sitting on the love seat in the family room. You can drive your car at this point and it looks really cool. It appears to be a mix between the European Golf Vans and a Cabriolet.

REPLACING THE LOOKING GLASS

The rear window is an easy installation. If you stopped and drove your car for a few weeks like I did then this additional step should take 45 minutes including setup and installation. If you are continuing on then it should be another 30 minutes or so.

Feel around the rear window to figure out where the frame is, you are going to have to cut a hole inside the dimensions of the rear frame without getting even the slightest bit out of the lines, I suggest you cut small and then staple. Yes, staple.

You should cut an X shape through the top within the window frame, you are going to need to make relief cuts in the top material at the corners in order to get it to lie down without wrinkles. THE TOP MUST BE CLOSED AND LATCHED COMPLETELY BEFORE CUTTING OR STAPLING. Be sure to not cut a circle out as this severely limits the amount of material you have left to tug on. You will pull the material taught and then use the electric staple gun to fire staples through the top material into the frame of the window. The frame is wooden if you are wondering, they just paint it black to match the interior. Now that you have stapled all the way around the frame taking care to use at least as many staples as the factory did you are read to pop the rear glass in place. If you have ever installed a wind shield into a gasket type setting then you are used to this. If not, read on.

Take the rear window gasket and install it onto the rear window. Get a roll of nylon string and wrap the string around in the seal groove at least twice, if not more. If you have never done this before you will be wrapping the string and trying over, so don’t fret. If you complete the following steps twice without success drink Dos Equis and then come back to it.

You have the string wrapped around the seal, so set the window up against the outside of the car. Have your slowly sobering buddy hold it in place. Crawl inside of the car and find the END of the string (not the beginning…), gently pull the string at a 90 degree angle from the plane of the glass. This will roll the lip of the seal in and allow the whole thing to seat nicely. You wrapped the string twice or more so that parts of the gasket do not roll in on the first lap around the window they will have another chance on the next lap. VW windows fit well and this should be easy for anyone who can butter bread.

CLEAN UP

You are now finished replacing the top. Congratulations. Send me pictures: forrestking@juno.com preferably of each step and the completed deal. Put your tools away and then go inside and apologize to your significant other. You are a touch too tipsy to drive so maybe have a nice dinner at home or have the previously mentioned significant other drive to dinner.

I hope this helps. If you have problems with my spelling or grammar feel free to make a contribution towards my tuition: Forrest King, 1807 S. Jackson Ave #A, Tulsa, OK 74107.
SOURCES

Top: World Upholstery, 1-800-222-9577 . Please tell them I sent you. The lady who answers the phone is a RUDE, but the product is amazing and fits perfectly. Better quality than JCWhitney. I paid $218 shipped for a vinyl cabriolet grain top in a custom blue.

Wrench: Sears. Buy the damn wrench. You will thank me.

Online Resources:
http://pages.cthome.net/frank.vanhaste/vwragtop.html (a good reference)
http://www.vwinteriorsandtops.com/
85 Cab - 1.9L 8v, g-grind, euro dual downs to TT race w/ Borla, VWMS fuel dizzy, 2H tranny with 5th gear swap, TT short shift, FK 60/40, 15" BBS RA, rear disks... begging for boost...
SoCal_Cabby
Postus-Whorus-Maximus
Posts: 2160
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Location: Escondido, CA

Post by SoCal_Cabby »

wow, that sounds like alot of work, but it doesn't seem like it's beyong my abilities.

although i do have a question.

i'm not sute my top was installed correctly nor does it have all the parts.
(no headliner)

is it gonna be possible for me to figure it out ?
User avatar
PDX Cabby
The Living Bentley Manual
Posts: 523
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 12:51 am
What year is your cabby?: 1985
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Post by PDX Cabby »

should be pretty strait forward....
85 Cab - 1.9L 8v, g-grind, euro dual downs to TT race w/ Borla, VWMS fuel dizzy, 2H tranny with 5th gear swap, TT short shift, FK 60/40, 15" BBS RA, rear disks... begging for boost...
89lsc4me
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:45 pm
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Post by 89lsc4me »

Is there anyone that has done the top and has the original instruction sheets!! Can I get a copy scanned and e-mailed to me!! Thanks
theonlychuck
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:28 pm
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Contact:

Post by theonlychuck »

i've replaced my top, but the instructions they sent me was one a small piece of paper (less than half a sheet of letter paper), and was not detailed at all. i mean this thing was seriously like:

1.) Remove old top.
2.).... etc.

no detail at all, but there are some sites and things out there that have a lot of good info, i'll see what i can find.
-=(chuck)=-
Greubin
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 2:22 am
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Location: SJC
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Post by Greubin »

I just bought a replacement top/headliner kit. The instructions above will help a bunch. Any suggestions for the headliner and pad installation?

thanks,
Greubin
'89 cabby
'01 929 - trackflogger
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