No Charge

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boschbabe
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No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

Daughter's car has had intermittent prob with some dash stuff not working (fuel gauge, one of the two air bag lights that are always on) but she had the car not start some distance away during a longer one of these periods when the dash stuff wasn't working (no crank). Car starting after 10 minutes or so of sitting and she drove it home. Car would not start here. Batt voltage was 12.35. Tightened one cable connection and car cranked slowly. Car started after awhile and voltage read 10V running. Voltage is 12.35 with car off. Haynes manual not much help. Also did search but won't bring up posting. Thanks.
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Briano1234
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Re: No Charge

Post by Briano1234 »

Intermittent prob with some dash stuff not working (fuel gauge, one of the two air bag lights that are always on).
This is a 90ish cabby? Specific year would be nice.

The car would not start some distance away during a longer one of these periods when the dash stuff wasn't working (no crank).
Automatic or manual.


Car starting after 10 minutes or so of sitting and she drove it home.
Automatic or manual

Car would not start here. Batt voltage was 12.35.
Tightened one cable connection and car cranked slowly.
Car started after awhile and voltage read 10V running. Voltage is 12.35 with car off.

Is this by the dash gauge or with a meter on the battery?

Haynes manual not much help. Also did search but won't bring up posting. Thanks.

Haynes or Bentley, wouldn't help for these types of issues.

Now with that said.

If your car is an Automatic, then you need to see if the heat soak relay is installed.
This relay can stop the intermittent issue as you described.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2593146

Then if it is also a automatic and a 90-93 there is also this:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1667http://www.top ... =27&t=1667

For resetting the air bag lights try:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... 80%99s-how.
and
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... hts!-SWEET!

For the Battery being low voltage, is that measured with a VOM on the battery or using just the gauge in the car?
There can be a 1-1 1/2 volt difference. I suggest the following steps.

1. Replace the battery to frame, then the frame to engine/tranny ground. Yes replace not clean, not tighten, but replace.
2. Measure the voltage at the Alternator output, it should be 13.75 The same as it is on the battery.
3. If the battery or the alternator is at 12.5 then I would remove the alternator and or the battery and have it tested. You can take it to Autozone or Advance, and they don't charge you for testing it on the car.

Intermittent fuel gauge? Well that could be the 10V stabilizer or that you need to add a ground and plump the pads on the instrument cluster.
This will require that you take the Fascia off the dash to remove it. But be warned, that you do not want to energize the dash with out the cluster connected... (sets off the air bags.).

Where are all your grounds?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... f-your-car
Briano

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boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

It is a '93 auto. I messed with it some more to see if there was a connection between the dash stuff and the 10V running issues. There is not. The dash stuff is currently working but still only shows 10V at the batt terminals and alt hot connection while running. My daughter said that the volt gauge was in the red for awhile driving back before hovering around 8V. The batt light was not on when it ran (I went out to double-check it but it cranks too slowly now). The batt light works with key on. Guess we shouldn't sell her BMW just yet!
boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

Is there a way I test test the alt here (on the car) the way they would test it at Advanceauto?
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Briano1234
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Re: No Charge

Post by Briano1234 »

To a point.
If the voltage was in the red, then you probably have a bad alternator.

Do this.
Take a Battery Jumper set.
Connect the Black lead to the Battery and to the FRAME of the car.
Connect the Red Lead to the frame and then to the engine. (you are getting a better ground.

Now Measure the voltage with a DVM at the Positive Battery terminal to the Frame. Should be 13-13.75-but have seen as much as 14.
Low indicates that the battery needs a charge.

Now start the car. Do you have 13.75V on the alternator output lead? No usually a bad alternator.

If you don't have the heat soak relay, then you need to install it.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

Since the alt was easy to get off, I took it to AA to get tested where it tested good. So I put it back on a it works! I'm having my daughter carry a small hammer to rap it if it craps out again. Then I will get the $75 one at AA. The pivot bolt allen socket was totally rounded and had to be removed by the chisel and notch method. I ground two sides flat to fit a 10mm to install it. Thanks for the help.
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kamzcab86
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Re: No Charge

Post by kamzcab86 »

boschbabe wrote:Since the alt was easy to get off, I took it to AA to get tested where it tested good. So I put it back on a it works!
It's quite possible that the exciter circuit wire was loose; reinstalling the alternator got the blue wire nice and tight. Faulty exciter circuit wire = no charging. :beer:
boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

Since I have reinstalled it it has gone dead and is now working again. While it was dead I tapped on the alt with a plastic hammer to see if there was an internal connection issue. No luck. It was started later by my son and was charging normally. He jiggled all relevant wiring and it continued to charge. I might buy the AA unit and keep the core in case it's good. Also, there is a loose plastic-housed male connector on the alt that doesn't go to anything. What is that for?
boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

This car has a generic pos terminal with 4 large gauge wires hooked to the bolt. Instead of the 5/16 battery bolt it has a 1/4 bolt to accommodate those 4 wires. It was a tad loose and couldn't be tightened because the bolt was spinning and couldn't be held. I put a washer on it to tighten it and it might have been the problem. I would like to get an OEM cable like the neg. How many wires should the pos have besides the main?
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Briano1234
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Re: No Charge

Post by Briano1234 »

Well, you need a alternator take off, and a starter takeoff., then a wire for the accessories.
I would say 3, with 2 of them good sized 4.. although you could chain the starter to the alternator. But I always thought that separate wires to the alternator and to the starter were a better idea.

I bought a generic for my cars that had the main lead long enough to go to the starter, and a lead that was long enough to go over to the alternator, then it had 2 additional pig tails...
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

Until I get a readable wiring diagram or do a one-wire-at-a-time elimination test, where do the pos wires go? Is the alt B+ wire a fusable link? I tried it with no wires except the cable and there was no power to the ign sw.
CalAltaDubber
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Re: No Charge

Post by CalAltaDubber »

There are only two connections to the Alternator. The power wires (usually two in parallel, red in colour and 14 or 16 guage) from the starter and the exciter (blue, connects to the B+ terminal).

As Kamy pointed out, if the blue wire is not connected, the system will not charge. I am beginning to think your issue is with the exciter wire. It runs from the alternator along the cable to the starter, where it has a connector to another blue wire. I would start by cleaning the connection and doing continuety checks of the blue wires.

I don't have my wiring diagram handy, so I can't say where the wire goes after the connector, but the "jiggle" test you mentioned may not determine the fault if this is the case.

One thing you haven't mentioned is if the battery light in the dash illuminates when it is not charging. If the light does illuminate, I would suspect a fault in the exciter circuit. Probably the wire.

If not I think it is time to return to the alternator.

I say this, because last year a friend of mine was having similar issues. Turned out that a previous owner had replaced the alternator with a Delco alternator meant to be used in a General Motors vehicle. A proper VW unit made all the difference.

There are several alternators that can be used in a Cabriolet. Most common are the Bosh alternators. The other type are from Velejo (Not sure how to spell it, I have one in one of my cars, and it is OEM).

On the rear of the alternator are two replaceable components. First is the Voltage Regulator. It is attached with two screws. It also houses the brushes that connect to the alternator. If the brushes are less than 5 mm long it needs to be replaced.

There is also a capacitor on the back of the alternator. It is a small black box with a single wire held on by one screw. Its purpose is to reduce ignition noise, so I dont think it is your issue.

If you have a Velejo alternator, replacment of the voltage regulator is a pain! They are hard to find and expensive. It would be cheaper and easier to replace it outright with a Bosh unit.

As for a replacment alternator, go to your local auto wrecker and look for any MK I or MK II VW, the alternators are interchangable. If your car has air conditioning, you will need to find one rated at 90 Amps. (from a car with AC). If not any one will do, but the 90 Amp. ones are a nice upgrade if a sound system is involved.

The connections on older rabbits may be different. In that case, make sure you also grab the cable that runs from the alternator to the starter as well.

Hope this helps.
Phil

'87 Cabriolet, "Topless Bunny"
'88 Cabriolet, "Posh Bunny"
'04 Golf
'12 Golf Wagon TDI
'69 Manx type Dune Buggy (New Toy)

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boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

Thanks. Ours is a Bosch. The charge light comes on with key on but does not illuminate with the no charge issue. When things are working the D+ (blue wire) shows 14V along with the B+. It shows 1V with eng off and key on. I need to check the D+ with the engine running but not charging (current status again). The cabbies at the local junk yard are pretty sketchy so I guess I will get the AA alt and hang on to the core for awhile.
boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

I think I found the problem. The D+ had 1V when it was working (eng off) but now has zero. I traced it to the battery area where there is a connector that was a little corroded. But it has zero voltage at the source wire. I couldn't find the other connector by the starter but will try again when the exhaust cools. Does anyone know where the blue wire originates? Also could someone tell me what the voltage should be at the D+ with engine off? Thanks, I'm getting closer to a solution.
boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

What is the OXS elapsed mileage switch? My Haynes manual shows the D+ wire going through this thing that is "mechanically operated". Where is it located? Can it be bypassed? I'll try a search.
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