No Charge

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boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

I don't think that mileage switch, if this '93 even has one, is the problem. I was following the circuit wrong. The circuit goes into the cluster as part of that low voltage circuit that runs the gauges and idiot lights. I might be pulling the cluster. For want of one volt this car is down!
CalAltaDubber
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Re: No Charge

Post by CalAltaDubber »

Since you mentioned that when you tap the alternator it starts working, so I think the issue is at the alternator.

I took a look at my wiring diagrams, and I keep coming back to the voltage regulator. First I suggest removing the voltage regulator, and clean the area around the mounting screw (it uses one of the screws to make a ground connection).

It might be an internal fault, since it is a solid state unit, there are no adjustments. It would have to be replaced, but that is a lot cheaper than replacing the whole alternator.

Since you have it out, measure the brushes. If they are less than 5 mm, you will have to replace the voltage regulator.

Hope this helps.
Phil

'87 Cabriolet, "Topless Bunny"
'88 Cabriolet, "Posh Bunny"
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boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

Tapping the alt did NOT help. And the alt is back in the car. I found out that the blue wire goes to the BATT light which is powered by the HOT KEY ON circuit. I read that you can hook a 12V test lamp between the B+ and D+ (blue wire removed) terminals and it performs the same funtion as the blue wire/batt light function. If the light stays on while running, the alt is at fault (D+ is powered through test light). If the light goes off then there is an open circuit in the blue wire (circuit 61) circuit.
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Briano1234
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Re: No Charge

Post by Briano1234 »

The blue wire or exciter comes off the alternator, over to the coil, then to the fuel pump relay up to the lamp in the cluster.
With out that the Alternator can't sense the thing being on, and will not create an output.
The Battery lamp is part of the exciter circuit.

If you look at the circuit, the lamp is a voltage sense.
If there is 13.5 volts the thing is off. There is a Diode that is blocking the lamp that says everything is fine and 13.5 V don't light
If the voltage is below, then it uses the reverse bias of the diode from the battery to turn it on, telling you that the alternator isn't charging the battery.
Briano

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boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

I WISH I could look at the circuit. All I have is an '84 diagram from the Haynes that I can't understand. On this car the D+ wire runs with the large gauge B+ over near the battery where it joins a smaller gauge blue wire that goes into a harness with a large gauge POS wire (probably the power to the fusebox) that enters a large harness running along the driver's side strut tower going into the car.
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Briano1234
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Re: No Charge

Post by Briano1234 »

Had to look up your year 93.

Alternator, D+ (blue exciter) goes directly to the pin 12 of the cluster main connector (t14 pin 12)
It doesn't go to the Fuel pump relay and or the coil....

Check to see if there is continuity between the blue wire and pin 12 on the large white connector.
See my where are my grounds thread. DO NOT TURN THE KEY SWITCH ON or PLACE THE KEY IN THE IGNITION IF YOU HAVE THE CLUSTER OUT OF THE CAR.


You can trip your air bag lights.

With the car running and the idle over 1100 rpm for a moment.

Key on not running.
Big lead 12V or Battery potential
Blue lead or D+ 1.46V

Key in Car started and blipped idle over 1100rpm
Big lead 13.5-to14.0V
Blue lead 13.v to 14.0V

If you don't have that then the Alternator or voltage regulator is bad.
Have you replaced your battery to frame and frame to battery ground?
Have you added a Ground wire from a Alternator Case nut to the Alternators engine mount?

I just checked my Green Car 92, and I have a after market battery cable, that has 2 pretty good sized wires about 24 inches long, and a 3rd black accessory wire.

On my car I have one big lead going to the starter.
The other big lead to my alternator, and the Accessory wire is powering my hot start relay.

I have the other wires attached to the bolt.

Hope that helps.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

The problem is I don't have that 1 volt to the D+ engine on or off. I guess I'll be pulling the cluster. I hooked a test light between the POS terminal and the unhooked D+ connector near the battery. It doubles as a BATT light and exciter supply. The light was on with key on but went off with engine running (once I blipped the throttle) so the alt and VR are good.
boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

How do you get the cluster out? I don't see any screws. Nothing in my Haynes jives with my dash.
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Briano1234
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Re: No Charge

Post by Briano1234 »

boschbabe wrote:How do you get the cluster out? I don't see any screws. Nothing in my Haynes jives with my dash.
Get thee a Bentley
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Disconnect the Battery.
Remove the Bake/headlight bezel.
Remove the Heater control bezel and disconnect the lamp on the left.
Remove your radio
Remove the heater control switch
Remove the defroster switch
Remove the 4-way switch and Tape over the blue/yellow single wire
Remove the headlight switch
On the left and right of the top of the fascia are 2 Phillips screws remove them.
On the bottom, left brake there is a phillips remove it.
On the bottom center is a phillips remove it.
On the bottom right is a Phillips remove it.
Center of the radio there is a phillips remove it.

Carefully remove the fascia out.
Remove the 2 phillips that are holding the heater control unit in place.

On the left and right of the cluster are 1 screw each. Unscrew them.
On the back of the cluster there are up to 3 connectors and the speedo cable.
Worm your arm behind the cluster and disconnect the speedo, a clip thing. Removing the heater control screws allows the thing to float so when you worm your arm back there it doesn't break.

There may be a cruise control connector 2 wires ( it isn't keyed) and it don't matter how you put it on.
There is the Tach/airbag connector 4 wires.
There is the Large white 14 pin connector.

Rock the instrument cluster to the front and lift out.

http://www.cabby-info.com has the pictorial.
http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/DashRemoval.pdf
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

Thanks for the detailed write up and links. I guess I'll delve into it tomorrow.
boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

I got the cluster off. I have continuity between the blue connector near the batt and pin 12. If I have power going in to the cluster but don't have my 1 volt coming out to pin 12, what do I do? (haven't tried it yet).
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Briano1234
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Re: No Charge

Post by Briano1234 »

boschbabe wrote:I got the cluster off. I have continuity between the blue connector near the batt and pin 12. If I have power going in to the cluster but don't have my 1 volt coming out to pin 12, what do I do? (haven't tried it yet).
Are you measuring from pin 2 to pin 12, pin 2 is ground?
Is there 1v at the alternator blue wire?

Then running is there 12V on the blue wire?

So when you are having the issue is your battery light "on" in the cluster?
Do your water temp and fuel gauge work?
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
boschbabe
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:35 am
What year is your cabby?: 1993
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes

Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

I'm fixin to go out there and hook some power up to it. My batt light, fuel gauge and water temp light are also inop but I don't think that the two problems happen simultaneously (no charge and gauges). But if the gauge issue has something to do with the no charge, what do I check?
boschbabe
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Re: No Charge

Post by boschbabe »

Even after rerouting the larger connector I can't get a good backprobe on it when it's hooked to the cluster. I got zero volts between 12 pin and a metal spot. Does the tach connector have to be hooked up too?
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Briano1234
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Re: No Charge

Post by Briano1234 »

YES, the tach connector also has air bag wires.... Disconnecting it and applying power can cause the air bag sensors to light the dash lights.

To get a good check I usually use a Brad (thin nail) or tiny test lead in to the "wire" side of the connector.

I would suggest using a good ground point on the frame, then pin2 (brown) on the connector, to see if they are different.

Look at my Thread on repairing a flaky water gauge, as I show you how to "plump" up the pins on the mylar.

You can get a 12V diode at Radio Shack, and a lamp, and Simulate the Exciter circuit right off the Alternator to test it in the car, as if the thing then produces 13.75 volts, you know it is in the exciter circuit or in the voltage regulator.

Did you place a ground on the alternator Case nut, to the Alternator Bracket mount?
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
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