Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

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mobycat
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Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by mobycat » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:05 pm

So I replaced the turn signals with LED on my 81 convertible. I did the relay swap to an LED capable relay from SuperBrightLEDs.

At this point, the rears work exactly as expected. The fronts, however, do not. When the main lights are turned off, the hazards and individual turn signals work perfect. When the main lights are on, however, they aren't working quite correctly. Hazards work fine - blink as expected. But when I try either turn signal, it goes bright, but does not blink. Just steady bright setting.

I did notice that sometimes when the hazards are turned on, I hear a bit of a scratchy noise from the steering column (the turn signal stalk, I'm guessing). I have a new turn signal stalk coming tomorrow.

Does this sound like a common thing? I suspect it could just be a connection on the stalk, but since I've been having issues with the horn as well, it may be just as well to replace the whole thing.
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

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Briano1234
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by Briano1234 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:21 pm

If the Hazards work and flash correctly then I would look at the relay as I can remember using a Generic relay from Wagner back in the day that wasn't a good fit, I probably would be easier to put resistor Kits on the Turns front and rear and use the original flasher. I don't think your issue is the Stalk.
The reason they are Bright is that there isn't enough resistance in the Turn for the Relay that you have to Detect them and a LED uses about 2V difference to turn full on. So there isn't enough resistance to back feed the relay to heat it up to turn it off. It could also be bad bulbs in the front...
Or that you have to add some resistance Kits to the Front Turns
Briano

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mobycat
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by mobycat » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:17 pm

I'll see about getting resistance kits tomorrow. When I first tried it (without the headlights on), I was so happy to see the voltmeter gauge not jump up and down like normal with the turn signals.

At the moment, I put the incandescents back in on the front and everything is good.

(The relay I got was the one recommended on cabby-info.com from SuperBrightLED.)
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

mobycat
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by mobycat » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:36 pm

Well, apparently I screwed something up. Replaced the stalk and now the turn signals don't work at all. Hazards are good, so clearly it must be something in the steering column. First thought maybe I blew a fuse, but I replaced it and they still aren't working. Also re-seated the relay. And no horn at all.

Reverse lights work, so that fuse seems to be ok.

Time for some more digging. (Haven't tried putting the old relay back in)

Does the horn/turn signal eletrical connections on the steering column go through the wiper stalk at all?
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

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Briano1234
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by Briano1234 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:37 pm

What is the dash light doing? That is the key, The fuse for the turns is f19 or 14 depending on year.

85-87 turns
Image

Image

The black/white/gray is the power into the switch from the flasher relay to the Hazard switch to f19 for the left or right side.
The power for the turns / hazard is off of the main power in to the flasher from the switch for the turns and the position of the Hazard.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:

mobycat
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by mobycat » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:51 pm

The dash light that blinks with the signals? Blinks appropriately for hazards. Does not light up at all for turn signals (and don't hear the familiar "click click click" as they are running).

I also just tried the old relay. Same issue - no turn signals, but hazards are fine.
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

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Briano1234
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by Briano1234 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:15 am

If the Turns only don't work then yes it could be the switch, if the Hazards work.
Just because it is new, doesn't mean that it works or that it is fully plugged in.

Put the old switch back in.

Replace the led bulbs in the front with your old bulbs, to eliminate them.
Then the rear to eliminate them.

If the turns start to work, then you are going to need resistor packs for the bulbs.
Did you replace the relay with the original?
Did you check the fuse f19? don't look at it replace it with new or test it.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:

mobycat
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by mobycat » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:15 pm

Put the old switch in, incandescents are in. Replaced the fuse and put the original relay back in - no turn signals at all. Hazards still work well.

It seems to me (as a non-electrician) that it might point to wiper switch or something in the steering column. Maybe when I put the new turn signal switch in, it jarred something on the wiper switch.
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

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Briano1234
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by Briano1234 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:45 am

Try woking your grounds on the lamps you have to have grood grounds or you get funny things happening.
Check your fuses and ground to the bulbs, I have seen corrosion on the lamp sockets that will prevent the contact from fully seating to the bulbs, and at the rear add a new ground for each side to the Bumper bolts at the rear quarters using a large ring connector.

If the hazards work, then your switch is providing power to the Hazards and that half is working.
I have also seen hazard switches go, but that is iffy....

Try reseating the pins on the plug to the Switch as they may have backed out when you plugged the switch in.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:

mobycat
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by mobycat » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:15 pm

I've heard anecdotally that maybe I tightened the steering wheel nut too much. Ever heard of this?

Probably won't have time to do much today, but tomorrow I'll start going through the grounds (which I'd like to replace with new wire/connectors anyway).
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

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Briano1234
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by Briano1234 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:20 pm

No I have never heard of over tightening the wheel before.
Put it on as tight as you can, then smack the ratchet with your palm and you should be good to go. Besides it is only 37ft/lbs without an air bag, and 30 with an airbag.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:

mobycat
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by mobycat » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:47 pm

OK, I've got the turn signals sorted. I took the wheel back off and it looks like when I put the new switch in, it pushed the pin recepticle back a bit. With the new switch seated properly, the new relay, incandescents front/LED rear, the signals work properly. Still need to get the resistance kits so I can put the LEDs back in the front signals.

The horn is still a little wonky - sometimes has dual horns, sometimes only one blows. I'll get into that bit tomorrow.

Thanks for your help on the signals!

Oh, and my plan is to replace ALL the ground wires in the car. I don't know how long it'll take me to do that. Figure I'll start on the rear and make my forward.
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

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Briano1234
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by Briano1234 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:51 am

Glad you got it sorted.
Yep, grounds are an issue www.cabby-info.com has a list of the older CIS grounds and where they are located.
My where are your grounds thread has pictures of them in a CIS and some are in the same location.
The Horns have power all the time and you are switching grounds to them via the relay.
The Main Ground for the Steering is on the Steering Gear Box (under the car) to the Bracket that holds the steering rack mount.

If they work full time but it is a single horn or dual look for a bad connection on the horns or a bad horn it's self.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:

mobycat
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What year is your cabby?: 1981
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by mobycat » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:04 pm

So if the horns have power all the time, should they be working even when the key isn't in the ignition (like the radio)? Right now, my horns definitely do not work when the key is not in. This is with either the old relay or the new one.

(They are both new, and connecting directly to the battery brings a nice solid sound from both)
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

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Briano1234
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Re: Lighting - turn signals/hazard lights

Post by Briano1234 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:41 pm

No, and the horns are operated by a relay, and the relay is under key switched power. Yep they use a relay to power the horns for switched grounds as we call it.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:

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