Dual horn - still not 100%

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mobycat
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Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by mobycat » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:31 pm

I'm sure this has been discussed to death, so apologies if anyone is tired of it...

I ran through the tests in Bentley - as soon as I got to that tab Briano mentioned, I was getting different results. I can get a full dual horn blast now, but sometimes when I hit the horn, there is a brief (maybe a couple tenths of a second) of just one horn.

If I take a pair of pliers and touch the contacts with the steering wheel off, I get a full dual horn blast. There was some crust on the tab - cleaned that off, but it's still not 100%.

Wondering... does it sound like the stalk needs to be replaced... or do I need to dig further? (Note that this was the first time I've ever taken a steering wheel off, so as easy as it was, it still made me a bit nervous. (I do have a torque wrench, so I'm not concerned about the re-installation.)
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

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Briano1234
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Re: Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by Briano1234 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:42 am

You don't need a Torque wrench on the steering wheel nut. Just fully tighten it and then a good umph will do.
On the back side of your steering wheel you will see the rub mark where the contact makes connection to the wheel. Clean this and Polish this with some 0000 steel wool, it gets greasy and can make iffy contact to the connection.

Make sure that your lower bearing didn't slip out, there at the bottom of the shaft is a white/yellowed bearing that can slip out causing play in the wheel rotation and you can pull your wheel out about a half an inch, if it is slightly out, or even fully out scoot it back up the shaft and hold it in place with a wire-tie (semi large one or a hose clamp, and consider that a permanent fix.

Make sure the contact finger is clean and devoid of dirt, a rag dipped or sprayed with brake-kleen will do, then I usually bend the contact finger out slightly (notice I said slightly), and a thin coat of Die-electric grease.

Yes it could be that your wiper finger is worn and needs to be replaced but usually the bending it slightly will allow full pressure. I would also reset the horn relay in the fuse panel, it isn't a bad thing to reseat all fuses and relays every couple of years to clean the contacts.

Also when removing the steering wheel, the splines on the shaft need to be cleaned, as well as the washer and inner splines of the wheel. I use a Brass brush (like a tooth brush) to get inside the wheel and then a spritz with brake-kleen (green can) on a rag and the Splines. I then lightly coat the splines with never-seize (silver). I forgot to mention that when removing the steering wheel you loosen the nut all the way then replace it with 3 turns, Pull out on the wheel when it pops out of the splines then remove the nut...(prevents forehead bruising). The Wheel gets it's connection to ground via the splines, shaft washer and nut, that is why you want to clean them up a bit.

You might want to clean and polish the push buttons on the wheel as well as making sure the spad connectors are clean and tight.

Sound more of a Iffy or dirty connection than anything else...
Briano

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mobycat
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Re: Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by mobycat » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:44 am

I did clean the contacts - they are nice and "shiny" now. a slight bend of the tab didn't seem to improve it. After I was getting the full blast with the wheel reconnected, I took the car out around the block. Steering wheel feels properly set - but then I was again getting absolutely nothing from the horn - just the "click." I will try resetting the relay and fuses today.
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

mobycat
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What year is your cabby?: 1981
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Re: Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by mobycat » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:23 pm

I think I finally figured it out. The horn button has at least one of the "tabs" broken. If I pull it off and just set it on the spot without snapping it in, it seems to work with no issues. I've ordered the repair kit... we'll see if that finally solves the problem.

Of course, now I have an issue with the license plate light and the light inside the back hatch. Worked previously, now doesn't. Guess that's my next go-round. (Tail lights/brake lights, reverse lights, turn signals... they all work fine).
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

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Briano1234
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Re: Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by Briano1234 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:08 am

Bulbs go bad. So do grounds, I usually tie the grounds to the body or frame at the rear lamps to the Bumper bolts.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:

mobycat
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Re: Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by mobycat » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:01 pm

That's what I was thinking. Though from just a visual inspection, the ground for the license plate light is connected to the body. I checked the bulb wires with a multimeter - showing almost no voltage.
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

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Briano1234
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Re: Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by Briano1234 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:21 pm

in a cabby of late all the Grounds are chained together that is the right side is tied to the left an a single ground. I have found that if I add a new ground to the backing plate and tie it to a Bumper Bolt magical things stop happening....

For the reverse lights you have the switch on the Transmission that can get corroded and stop the voltage from getting to the lights as they are fed from a fuse to the transmission switch to the back of the car to a lamp then out of the lamp to ground.

on latter cabby's it was like f15 to the switch (transmission) then back to the lamps, and the Left side feeds the voltage to the right side rear, both should have separate grounds.

So if you are getting low voltage to the backup lights, make sure that you have 12V at the transmission reverse switch, then you could look for continuity between the ground side and the feed for the bulb.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:

mobycat
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Re: Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by mobycat » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:20 pm

Well, I'm a bit of an idiot. Figured, "hey... maybe try the simplest thing first..." Replaced the fuse and voila... the license plate lights and interior trunk light now work fine. :D
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

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Briano1234
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Re: Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by Briano1234 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:32 am

naw, the easiest thing to miss is checking the fuses first.
My son jumped into his yesterday Cabby Plugged in the USB to the lighter and took out his clock and a few other selected things.
Grabbed the Bentley and found f3.
Pulled the fuse (blown) and replaced and the clock is fixed.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:

mobycat
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Re: Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by mobycat » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:31 pm

"To test the reverse light switch: Disconnect the electrical plug, jump the black and black/blue wire terminals, turn the ignition switch to the battery-on position. If the lights turn on, the switch is faulty."

I tried that and got no light. But then when I reconnected the wires and started the car, the reverse lights DID come on briefly. But I had to really push forward on the gearshift. Then, I took it out of gear and back into gear - this time they did not come on at all. I'm guessing it wouldn't hurt to replace the switch (looks original), but probably need to check the grounding in back.

(Again, apologies for being so "lack of knowledge" on this. This is the first car I've really tried to deal with electrics myself.)
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

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Briano1234
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Re: Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by Briano1234 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:54 am

No apologies needed. www.brokevw.com has a lot of information on the reverse switches.
Briano

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Re: Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by Briano1234 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:20 am

If you jumpered around the switch and the lights didn't come on, then you have a power issue to the switch or a bad connection between the switch connectors and the tail lights.

If the lights work one time and not another that is usually a bad wire or switch. I would suspect the wires over the switch as in over 300K on my Diesel I never had a switch issue on my 4sp or 5sd transmission, I won't say your switch isn't good or bad just saying for my 1st hand knowledge.

Your car is about as old as my original Rabbit Diesel, and if the wires are like my cabbies, that have been subject to heat, grease oil filth they get brittle insulation and can break the wires internally when they snap, I had one do that from man-handling on replacing the transmission and I wired around it. About 7-8 months later I found the break in the wire that eluded me... but as I had wired around it, I wasn't going to disturb the new for the old... The break was at a bend under the vinyl sheathing that was wire-tied to a bracket, as I had to move that bracket I cut the wire tie, and when I did the wire fell out... DOH it was about a foot up the sheath..

It isn't that had to replace the switch. But as I stated if you jumpered around it so the switch is out of the circuit, and the lamps didn't come on, then it isn't the switch.

You can find that with the Battery disconnected you can measure for continuity between the Battery and the positive side of the switch, you should have a short (fuse included). The same can be said for measuring back towards the bulb.. probably like 5-10 ohms unless you short the power side of the lamps to frame for the test (battery again disconnected).
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:

mobycat
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Re: Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by mobycat » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:40 am

Interestingly, while mine is a 1981, it was built in August 1980 and has the reverse light switch that only has a two blade connection. (Part #020-945-415A). But according to Cabby-Info, that's for 1988 and later models. (A typo on the site?)
1981 Diamond Silver Rabbit Convertible - to be restored to bone stock (or as close as possible).

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Briano1234
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Re: Dual horn - still not 100%

Post by Briano1234 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:55 pm

No, with the age of these cars all kinds of swaps could have been made.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:

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