Timing an automatic

Post all your engine questions and issues here and get help from the members

Moderators: kamzcab86, CalAltaDubber

Post Reply
CR500Rider
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:09 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1990
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes

Timing an automatic

Post by CR500Rider »

Question please!

I can't find the "O-T" marks on the cam pulley. One side has a dot, the other side has a slash. The slash is on the engine side.

I found this article but he doesn't explain where the mark on the camshaft pulley lines up.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... tic+timing

"well i figured out how to fix it, now if i could just figure out how to fix an angry girlfriend. anyways i never like to leave a thread unsolved so incase someone thinks in the same dumb way i do (god help them) this is what i was doing wrong

for one, the arrow saying o.t. on the timing belt cover backing plate and the dot on the front side of the cam sprocket need to be completely ignored. and i then found the proper mark on the back side of the cam after i dug some dirt out of it. it was roughly 180* away from the dot on the front side as mentioned above.

now heres the part that still confuses me a bit. even after setting cam and crank timing together, and then setting the ignition timing statically to 6*btdc it wouldn't start, the problem was that i had ignored the intermediate shaft sprocket being aligned with the crank sprocket because i thought it wouldn't matter since the distributor is so adjustable. i am thinking it matters possibly because of the knock sensor? does anyone know?

thanks for the help guys.

also the ignition was extremely easy to time, no multimeter or timing light needed, just set all the sprockets on the front of the engine properly, then set the crank to 6 degrees btdc, take the dist cap off, then loosen the distributor and turn it cw so the timing line on the edge of the distributor passes the rotor, turn the key to the on position, and then rotate the dist ccw slowly until you here the fuel pump run. stop right there and tighten it down, thats all there is to it. every time the hall sensor senses the ecu sends a signal to run the pump, so thats how it works."
1990 VW Cabriolet, 1.8L automatic.
User avatar
Briano1234
Whats that smell?
Posts: 4105
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:45 am
What year is your cabby?: 1992
Do you own a Cabriolet?: No
Location: Duluth, Ga
Contact:

Re: Timing an automatic

Post by Briano1234 »

Actually, to set the timing, the dot on the front of the cam is at 0 to the cover, the rear of the cam gear dot will be even with the Valve cover tin.
The Dist rotor should be in the middle of the hash that is stamped on the dist case. The Tranny will be at 0 on the tranny mark.

The intermediate shaft doesn't have to be aligned, as you want the Rotor in the middle of the dizzy.

Now Ron has a static method that works just fine, no timing light needed.

http://reflectionsandshadows.com/cabby/static-digi.html

http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/AdjustingTheTiming.pdf
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
CR500Rider
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:09 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1990
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes

Re: Timing an automatic

Post by CR500Rider »

If I point the line on the engine side of the camshaft pulley at the valve cover tin/gasket area (as shown in "step 4 - CIS" of the timing guide), the dot on the other side sits about at 7 o'clock. You can see where only one line (or dot) will "line up" at a time. I'm confused!
1990 VW Cabriolet, 1.8L automatic.
CalAltaDubber
Frozen Guy in the Northern Country
Posts: 2012
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:10 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1987
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Contact:

Re: Timing an automatic

Post by CalAltaDubber »

OK, I know where you are coming from.

I suggest to line up the mark on the side closest to the engine. Then check the distributer, Pull the rotor off and then remove the disk that is at the base of the shaft. Then put the rotor back on. The rotor should line up with the mark on the distributer.

If the rotor is not ligned up, rotate the engine so the other mark on the cam shaft gear lines up. and check the location of the rotor again.

Failing all that, line up the mark closest to the engine again. Remove the #1 spark plug (closest to the pulleys) and check to see the piston is at the top of its travel. That would be TDC.

When the #1 piston is at TDC, there should be a mark on the top of the crank shaft pully. It should align with a small arrow in the lower timing belt cover (it's hard to see).

If everything is aligned, the transmission timing mark (on the fly wheel) should be automatically aligned.
Phil

'87 Cabriolet, "Topless Bunny"
'88 Cabriolet, "Posh Bunny"
'04 Golf
'12 Golf Wagon TDI
'69 Manx type Dune Buggy (New Toy)

Image Image
CR500Rider
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:09 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1990
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes

Re: Timing an automatic

Post by CR500Rider »

I had the head rebuilt and lets just say the "mechanic" was less than adequate to work on any vehicle. None of the marks "lined up" when I got it back. Honestly, I'm amazed it ran. I now have time to do the work myself. Here's what I have done in order. Keep in mind, NOTHING was lined up correctly, I'm starting from scratch!

1: The transmission is sitting on the 0 mark. This also lines up the crankshaft pulley mark with the arrow on the bottom cover. It's my understanding this puts piston #1 at TDC.
2: The distributor had been "spun" to "find the timing". I loosened the bolt and positioned the distributor per the photo below. I then turned the rotor to point at the line on the distributor body. The line is basically pointed at the block.
3: Right now, I have it timed using the mark on the engine side of the camshaft pulley. If that is correct, I should be sitting at 0. I just can't find the information I need in the Bentley manual that tells me which mark on the camshaft pulley to use (for an automatic). That's the million dollar question.

I am not able to see if it will fire up cause I ordered the majority of the cooling system. I'm trying to get the timing in order before it gets here



Image
1990 VW Cabriolet, 1.8L automatic.
User avatar
Briano1234
Whats that smell?
Posts: 4105
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:45 am
What year is your cabby?: 1992
Do you own a Cabriolet?: No
Location: Duluth, Ga
Contact:

Re: Timing an automatic

Post by Briano1234 »

The mark is more like a notch between the teeth on the front side of the pulley. It looks as if a tooth is chipped.. it has a 0 on one side and a 1 on the other side.

I use the dimple on the back side of the pulley it is even with the valve cover tin, (not the re-enforcement bar).
The tranny is at 0 TDC.
The distributor rotor is centered in the hash.

Yes I have an Automatic, and that is how I time it. There is no difference between a Manual, and a Automatic in the timing.
I had a manual also.

Using the Static method that I linked you too works, you will find that as you adjust it, where the meter changes, you will hear the fuel pumps run.

When you get done with the static, you can warm the car up and check it with a timing light and it will be 6 degrees BTDC.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
CR500Rider
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:09 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1990
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes

Re: Timing an automatic

Post by CR500Rider »

Trust me, I'm not doubting you guys one bit and I appreciate every bit of information you can give. The only marks on my camshaft pulley are a dot on the front and a slash on the engine side. There is no 0 or 1 on the sides of either mark. This is where the confusion is for me. You said earlier "Actually, to set the timing, the dot on the front of the cam is at 0 to the cover, the rear of the cam gear dot will be even with the Valve cover tin". My dots won't line up this way which further confuses me. If I line up the engine side mark with the valve cover, the other dot is almost pointed straight down. I don't know if it's even possible but I'm wondering if the camshaft pulley was put on backwards? Maybe I'll just spend the $18.00 at Napa and get one with the right marks. Their cam timing gear shows the 0 and 1 on it.
1990 VW Cabriolet, 1.8L automatic.
Post Reply