And... she won't start

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StephanieGA
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And... she won't start

Post by StephanieGA »

Daughter's little cabbie is reassembled and she won't start. ARGH! Te refresh your memory, we went in to replace head gasket. While there we also did piston rings, oil pump and pan gasket, new timing belt and tensioner pully and passenger side motor mount.

Hubby says it is getting spark. He says all timing marks are lined up. Says he's checked them 5 times.

Any suggestions on what he should look for. Back at it again tomorrow.

Stephanie in GA
Last edited by StephanieGA on Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Briano1234
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Re: And... she won't start

Post by Briano1234 »

recheck timing..... Tranny mark at 0.
Cam rear dimple equal to the top of the valve cover tin.
Distributor rotor in the middle of the hash,

The make sure that the MAF connector is plugged in.
Make sure that you have fuel and that the fuel pumps are priming at key on.

To set timing see:
http://reflectionsandshadows.com/a1-tech/ section 28. Good photos.

http://www.cabby-info.com/ignition.htm left side has the DIY's.

I suspect your timing is off. Do not set the intermediate shaft, just pop the cap of the dizzy, and make sure the rotor is in the middle of the hash that is stamped on the case.

Ron's guide even tells you how to set it pretty much on the button using a digital volt ohmmeter. VOM
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
StephanieGA
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Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:21 pm
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Re: And... she won't start

Post by StephanieGA »

As best we can tell, it is not a timing issue. All timing marks line up and according to timing light, it is firing between TDC and 6 degrees.

We think it may be fuel related.
When we pull one injector and turn the car over, should that injector spray fuel?
Cold start injector has fuel to it. But nothing is coming out of the pulled injector.

Help still needed and greatly appreciated.

Stephanie in GA
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Briano1234
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Re: And... she won't start

Post by Briano1234 »

Don't know CIS that well, but yes, the cold start sprays, but then so should the other injectors.
You might try checking the fuel pressures, then follow Kammy's and Ron's CIS engine management stuff at
www.cabby-info.com and http://reflectionsandshadows.com/a1-tech/

I know that cleaning the plunger on the airplate may help, but don't have first hand knowledge of it, other than you have to use a magnet to lift the plate..

I could be that fuel has lacquered up over the 2 weeks that you have been working on it, and that is what is "gumming" up the works.

see:
http://reflectionsandshadows.com/cis-injector-cleaning/
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
StephanieGA
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Re: And... she won't start

Post by StephanieGA »

I think we're throwing in the towel. 2 whole days of dealing with the same problem and getting nowhere is extremely frustrating. :banghead: I think we'll be having her towed to the shop and let the professionals take a look. :cry:


Stephanie in GA
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kamzcab86
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Re: And... she won't start

Post by kamzcab86 »

If fuel is not coming out of the injectors (you checked them all?), the next place to look is at the fuel distributor. Disconnect the fuel filter at the output line. Is fuel coming out of the filter? Reconnect the line and disconnect the line going to the the control pressure regulator (at the CPR-end). Is it getting fuel? If fuel is coming out of the fuel filter, but not out of the distributor, the fuel distributor will need some cleaning: http://www.vintagewatercooleds.com/tech ... cismaf.htm . If fuel is getting to the CPR, but not to the injectors, the injectors are probably clogged.

Make sure the CPR (control pressure regulator) is properly connected.

The car should be able to sit for several months and not get fuel varnish, but everything fuel-related needs to be in tip-top shape.
StephanieGA
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Re: And... she won't start

Post by StephanieGA »

Thanks Kammy. I will pass along the info. He's really frustrated by this.

Stephanie in GA
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gull
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Re: And... she won't start

Post by gull »

The fact that your cold start injector works rules out a problem with the fuel pump or filter.

Take the rubber boot off the airflow meter and gently lift the plate while the fuel pumps are running (either jumper the relay, or have someone crank the engine.) You should get fuel spraying out of the injectors when the plate is lifted. If not either you have a clogged injector (unlikely they'd all be clogged, but I've seen stranger things) or an internal problem in the fuel distributor.

Note that there won't be any fuel to the injectors unless the AFM plate is sucked upwards, so for the engine to start you *must* have the intake ducting assembled...
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StephanieGA
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Re: And... she won't start

Post by StephanieGA »

Well, she's finally at the shop. Had a guy from the local VW club volunteer to come out Saturday and see if he could find what we are obviously missing. He's stumped too. Said everything looks right to him. So, this morning, we had her towed to the local garage. Such a sad little sight; her tiny little body on the back of that big flat bed wrecker. :( Shop says they may be able to take a look at her this afternoon. Will let everyone know what they find.

Stephanie in GA
StephanieGA
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Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:21 pm
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Re: And... she won't start

Post by StephanieGA »

She's back and she runs. But has no power and idles rough. Hubby said he told them to "just get her running." WTF???

Now this is second hand and remember I'm not a car mechanic but the shop said something about timing and the number 4 piston.?
Said it took them 2 hours and it is something "the book" doesn't tell you. I have no clue.
Hubby is sick, so now we have to wait until he feels better and can continue tinkering with it. :banghead:

Stephanie in GA
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gull
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Re: And... she won't start

Post by gull »

At least it's running!

A few things to start with:

Re-check ignition timing...also make sure they didn't knock any plug wires loose. ;)

Check for vacuum leaks.

I believe your car has CIS-Lambda fuel injection. It should have a small microswitch on the throttle body that engages at full throttle. Try depressing this with your fingers at idle. Does the idle improve? If so you may have a problem with the oxygen sensor or its related wiring. (The full throttle switch ignores the O2 sensor and selects a fixed, slightly rich mixture.)
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kamzcab86
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Re: And... she won't start

Post by kamzcab86 »

Test the plug wires; if one or all of them are shot, you'll have a lousy-running engine. Also take a look at the rotor & distributor cap: If either or both show signs of arcing, replace them.

And, again, quadruple check the timing, both ignition and cam.

Finally, do all of the tests outlined here: http://www.cabby-info.com/cis.htm .
StephanieGA
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Re: And... she won't start

Post by StephanieGA »

Husband went by the shop that did the head work and explained what was going on. Shop guy had him time it by aligning the lobes of the camshaft, regardless of where the dimple was on the gear. She fired up on second try with just a little adjustment of the distributor. The dimple is nowhere near where all the books and manuals indicate it should be. The guy at the engine shop said he thinks the intermediary gear and the timing gear have been swapped. Says they are interchangeable. So, he's going to see if he can check them and see if the dimples line up.

But, she's now firing off #1 piston and not #4. Runs fine going down the road. Has a small skip at idle, which hubby says he'll try to adjust, but we're much better than we were!

Stephanie in GA
CalAltaDubber
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Re: And... she won't start

Post by CalAltaDubber »

StephanieGA wrote: The guy at the engine shop said he thinks the intermediary gear and the timing gear have been swapped. Says they are interchangeable. So, he's going to see if he can check them and see if the dimples line up.

Stephanie in GA
I found the same issue last year when I rebuilt the engine in my '88 (Posh Bunny)

The two gears have the same part number so they are interchangable. They also fit backwards so the dimple can be on the wrong side of the gear, and quite a few degrees out.

I simply marked mine in the correct position.


Glad to hear you got the car running. Your husband will probably want to keep driving it, especially after all he has gone through on this.
Phil

'87 Cabriolet, "Topless Bunny"
'88 Cabriolet, "Posh Bunny"
'04 Golf
'12 Golf Wagon TDI
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