Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

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RabbidCabby9
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Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by RabbidCabby9 »

Bought car in September, ran great, took to a mechanic and he repaired all belts and the slop in the stick shift. Car ran even better.

Cold weather hits and the battery takes a shit. Go an buy a new battery, install, and crank car to start, works for a couple of days.

Then, attempt to start car following day and no crank. I figure it's the starter and i decide that i am going to DIY. I have attempted very few mechanical feats and this is one that i would like to come out on top.

I replace starter and hope and pray for the best, it cranks a few times and then dies out like it did when i had the old starter. Now....i got nothing. No crank, no sound the motor is there, and back to step one?!?!?

PLEASE HELP!
knuckles&shanks

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Briano1234
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Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by Briano1234 »

Install the heat soak relay.
Replace all your grounds.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... k-problems

grounds
http://www.the152.com/modules.php?name= ... pic&t=3185

And I suppose it could be your ignition switch.
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RabbidCabby9
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:05 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1989
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Location: Alexandria, Va.

Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by RabbidCabby9 »

I don't really understand grounds, electronics, and wiring. I am very knew to this resto/daily driver Cabby Club.
I have a basic understanding of some mechanics and have read your Mk1 Basic Electronics tutorial on Mk1Tutorials Briano1234.

Thanks for the reply, info and help.

My 89 Cabby is manual, so is a heat soak relay still necessary?

I am going to check the grounds tomorrow, there should be 4 from my understanding through the info on this forum?!?
knuckles&shanks

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Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by Briano1234 »

The heat soak fix is for manuals as well as automatics. It shunts the heavy current from the ignition switch to a solenoid. That is it cuts out about 10 foot of wiring, and the hi amp load and apply the battery directly to the Starter... that is a good thing.

As far as the grounds go, I would replace all of them... because they are probably worn out, internally corroded.
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
RabbidCabby9
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:05 pm
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Location: Alexandria, Va.

Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by RabbidCabby9 »

Cleaned all 4 ground locations today, i am going to get some new wires for them but they look great. I bought this car because of this condition it is in, ran great before, now i still got nothing.

I broke out the voltmeter today and tried to make like i knew what i was doing with it. I did get a reading under the DC selection from the battery of 11.00-11.50. This tells me that the "new" battery that i had put in before the starter had died, after sitting for more than a month, has now died as well?!?! Could the cold weather and it sitting and not being used have killed it? Could it just be faulty?

I tried to recharge/jump the battery off my wife's '10 Mazda 3 and no response.

I also noticed today as i was going through the car that the hall sender that is supposed to be attached to the side of the distributor, is not? Should i be concerned? :shock:

Not to mention, i went back over installing the starter and double checked to make sure every bolt and connection was secure and to the right torque spec.

I guess that i will try the heat soak, i just can't believe that i need to run a relay to get the car to run when all i did was replace the battery and starter?!??!

Again....Please HELP?!?
knuckles&shanks

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Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by Calimus »

The hall sender is what give's the distributor the signal to fire spark. So that not being plugged in will keep the car from starting.

Is the motor turning over at all? I'm a little confused on this one.

Also, as far as the new battery goes. Turning the engine over takes a lot out of the battery and while it's new to you, there is no telling how long it sat on the shelf. So if you have a charger, it would be a good idea to put it on charge for a while and let it build back up.
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RabbidCabby9
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Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by RabbidCabby9 »

The hall sender is plugged in, the connection seems to be fine, it's just not attached to the side of the distributor. Like i said, all wiring seems to be intact.

Funny too, i had the Terminal 50 plug on the wrong connection on the solenoid. When it was on the wrong one the starter tried to turn the engine over but died out after a second attempt.

But now, the engine doesn't turn over and there seems to be no juice when i turn the key to start the car, it's just silence. Like the snow!

I figure a dead battery? Hmmm?!?! :beer: maybe :beer: :beer:
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Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by Briano1234 »

A discharged battery will show in the 11.v range a freshly charged battery should be 13.75V.

Do this,

Disconnect the battery, and charge it off the car circuits.
Connect the ground.
Car in Neutral
With a jumper cable jump the positive post to the big lug on the starter solenoid.
If the starter spins then you have problems elsewhere as in the ignition switch.

If the starter don't spin, then you have a bad starter.
Briano

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You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
RabbidCabby9
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:05 pm
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Location: Alexandria, Va.

Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by RabbidCabby9 »

Back to AutoZone the battery goes to charge. Will pick up in the morning, install, turn key and hope to be pleasantly surprised with a running motor?!?!

The gentlemen at Autozone tested it, as he chuckled at me for leaving a new battery outside in the cold for more than a couple of weeks. :banghead:

To be continued....grrr....
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Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by Calimus »

If the hall sender has broken off the side of the dizzy, then there's a good chance the wires are damaged and that would certainly create a no spark scenario. Can you take a pic of the part in question and post it up so we can get a better idea of what's going on?
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Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by bbrown »

What about trying to pop start the car? Its a manual right? Grab a friend to give you a push (preferably down a driveway that has slight decline to it) while you sit in the car in 1st gear with the clutch in and the key to turned to the run position. Once your momentum is built up dump the clutch (make sure your friend is no longer pushing) and see if it comes to life. I have done this to several cars including my Ranger when the battery wasn't strong enough to get the car running on its own. :thumbup: :thumbup:
~Buster

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RabbidCabby9
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:05 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1989
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Location: Alexandria, Va.

Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by RabbidCabby9 »

I can't roll/jump start the car cause that will screw with the MAF and the catalytic converter. This is what i was told and read in the Bentley Manual.

Trying to get a picture of the hall sender posted!
knuckles&shanks

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Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by Briano1234 »

RabbidCabby9 wrote:I can't roll/jump start the car cause that will screw with the MAF and the catalytic converter. This is what i was told and read in the Bentley Manual.

Trying to get a picture of the hall sender posted!
horse hockey.

You can't clutch start a Electronic Fuel Injected car, if the battery is dead...no power to fuel pumps, or the injectors.
Briano

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You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
RabbidCabby9
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:05 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1989
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Location: Alexandria, Va.

Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by RabbidCabby9 »

Here is a not so good picture of the hall sender that is broken off of the side of the distributor cap.

I took it apart and the wires are all still attached to the distributor but i am concerned that this is the reason i am gettting nothing still.

I even had the Autozone charge my battery overnnight and got it back this morning. I put it back in the car and there is still no click or sound of anything starting.

I am guessing Ignition Switch????

Ugh/Arg.....grrr
Attachments
This is the broken off hall sender from the distributor cap
This is the broken off hall sender from the distributor cap
knuckles&shanks

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Re: Please HELP!!! New Starter and Car still won't Start?!?!

Post by Calimus »

Welp, the hall sender hanging off like that is certainly not good, but it's not stopping the car from turning over. Could be the ignition switch.

Once you get things turning over, be on the look out for a replacement distributor. Those wires won't hang on forever.
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