rear spekers

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rb0095
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rear spekers

Post by rb0095 »

Currently my Rabbit Convertible has no rear speakers...stock for the year (1980). I know later year Cabriolets came with rear speakers. So I should be able to put in rear speakers even though the car did not orginally have any, right? The space should be there, right?

Second question, I've been looking around and found that the stock speaker size for the rear speakers is 3x1/2, but I have also seen people talking about putting 6x9 speakers in the rear. How do you go about mounting larger speakers? (Some pictures would be nice)
Would I have to modify anything to get them to fit, or for the sound to come through?

Thanks
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bbrown
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Re: rear spekers

Post by bbrown »

Well I just did my whole sound system over last year viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2206&start=0 and I have a couple of things for you to think about. If you want year speakers you must have a head unit with the proper channels for the rear speakers. If you want to just add rear speakers to the existing stock head unit you won't like the results. Secondly, there is room for 3"-4.5" speakers up back to use the factory rear interior panels with the speaker "grilles." Check here for factory speaker sizes: http://www.cabby-info.com/audio_system.htm You will also need to run wire to the rear. I would recommend rewiring the entire sound system as the old speaker cable in the car is fairly out dated. The best sound will com from some 6x9's or 6.5" rounds in the back mated with a small amp. These speakers would require a little fab work in order to fit. They may also interfere with the rear windows being able to roll down too, but it can be made to work (I will be running this setup in a year or two once I am back in money and feeling like doing another stereo). Good luck. :thumbup:
~Buster

1986 VW Cabriolet 1.8 5 spd.


~__|__\__
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rb0095
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:44 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1980
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Location: Eagle, ID

Re: rear spekers

Post by rb0095 »

ok, thanks for the advise. I've already put in a new head unit and have some new speakers in the front (and ran new speaker wires) because the setup that was in it when I got the car didn't work...it might have been stock, I'm not sure.

I have no idea how an amp works or what it does...I'm new at this type of thing. If someone could point me in the right direction for what I need to be looking for that would be great.
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rb0095
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Re: rear spekers

Post by rb0095 »

rb0095 wrote:...I have no idea how an amp works or what it does...I'm new at this type of thing. If someone could point me in the right direction for what I need to be looking for that would be great.
I was looking around and found http://www.crutchfield.com/. I was able to find information about amps there...but I am still a bit confused. Do I want to get the amp connected to both the front and the rear speakers, or just the rear speakers.

If I am understanding how amps work, for just the rear speakers I would want a 2 channel amp, but if I want to connect the front and rear speakers with the amp (and still have the ability to use the fader switch on the stereo) I would want a 4 channel amp, is that right?
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Re: rear spekers

Post by Briano1234 »

rb0095 wrote:
rb0095 wrote:...I have no idea how an amp works or what it does...I'm new at this type of thing. If someone could point me in the right direction for what I need to be looking for that would be great.
I was looking around and found http://www.crutchfield.com/. I was able to find information about amps there...but I am still a bit confused. Do I want to get the amp connected to both the front and the rear speakers, or just the rear speakers.

If I am understanding how amps work, for just the rear speakers I would want a 2 channel amp, but if I want to connect the front and rear speakers with the amp (and still have the ability to use the fader switch on the stereo) I would want a 4 channel amp, is that right?
Sounds about right to me.
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eric4321
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Re: rear spekers

Post by eric4321 »

To answer some of your questions about amps and hopfuly not confuse you more... You could do a 2 or 4 or even 5 chanel amp depending on how far you want to go. If you amp the rear speakers most of your sound will come from the rear. If you go with a 4 chanel you will get cleaner sound front and rear. A 5 chanel is if you want to add a sub for bass. Remember when you get an amp you will need to get a good amp instal kit as well. You will need to run a cable from the battery to the amp as weel as other wires. You will also need to find out if your radio has rca out puts for an amp. If it does not then you will need an amp that you can hook up the speaker wires to. Also you should be able to use the fade with an amp set up.
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rb0095
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:44 pm
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Location: Eagle, ID

Re: rear spekers

Post by rb0095 »

eric4321 wrote:...If you go with a 4 chanel you will get cleaner sound front and rear. A 5 chanel is if you want to add a sub for bass...
...You will need to run a cable from the battery to the amp as weel as other wires. You will also need to find out if your radio has rca out puts for an amp...
Ok, thanks. That's about what I figured out, so clarification/conformation is great. My radio does have rca outputs, so that shouldn't be a problem...

Next question,
Looking at speakers, if I go with 6x9 speakers in the rear, I'm sure they will have a higher rms rating than my front speakers (they are 4x6), so if I want to amp both the front and rear do I want to get an amp that fits the rms ratings for the front speakers? or can I get an amp that fits the rms ratings for the rear speakers and then turn down a setting or somthing for the front speakers? I don't want to upgrade my front speakers unless I really have to...they are less than a year old.

Another thought, if I got an amp that fit the rms ratings for the rear speakers and then could turn down a setting for the front speakers, would that make the rear speakers overpower the front speakers way too much? As if I had only added the amp to the rear speakers?
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CalAltaDubber
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Re: rear spekers

Post by CalAltaDubber »

First, there is no such thing as Watts RMS The rating you are looking at is how much power the speaker will handle expressed in Watts. By the looks of your description, you are using the internal amp from the head unit to power the front speakers, and your other amp is being used to power the rear.

The RCA cables between the head unit and the Amp. only provide an un-amplified signal from the head unit.

Most people that use this configuration, think the power output from the head is boosted by the amp. This is not the case.

I assume that the amp Output is rated at a couple hundred watts, and most head units are 45 to 50 Watts. This will make the rears much louder than the fronts. You adjust this with the fader control on the head unit. The advantage is with nice weather, with the top down, you can use the extra power to hear the rear speakers at highway speeds.
Phil

'87 Cabriolet, "Topless Bunny"
'88 Cabriolet, "Posh Bunny"
'04 Golf
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rb0095
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Re: rear spekers

Post by rb0095 »

CalAltaDubber wrote:First, there is no such thing as Watts RMS The rating you are looking at is how much power the speaker will handle expressed in Watts...
Ok, so why does this page: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1083032CF/ ... _and_specs show an "RMS Power Range (Watts)" as well as peak power handling (also in watts)? I'm confused at what you are saying...I don't know too much about speakers at this point, perhaps I used the term incorrectly...however the website did lead me to believe I knew what I was talking about.
CalAltaDubber wrote:...By the looks of your description, you are using the internal amp from the head unit to power the front speakers, and your other amp is being used to power the rear...
Just so nobody is confused, I don't have any rear speakers set up yet, I do not have an amp yet. Just trying to get some information to help me when I decide what I want.
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bbrown
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Re: rear spekers

Post by bbrown »

This is a good read and may help clear up the RMS Watts discrepancies: http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/misc/rmspower.htm
~Buster

1986 VW Cabriolet 1.8 5 spd.


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CalAltaDubber
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Re: rear spekers

Post by CalAltaDubber »

Having been in the electronics business for over 30 years (I'm a certified Technician/Technologist), I do think I know a thing or two about this.

First the term RMS (Root Mean Square) is used in the measurement of AC Voltage It is .707 of Peak Voltage and compensates for the difference between what would be read on a voltmeter as opposed to reading a signal on a scope. Hence the term Volts RMS or Volts Peak.

The term power is best described as "The rate that work gets done".

Most audio systems are sold through the marketing department, so the specs they provide you are bent to make them sound bigger. Thats why a head unit is rated at ,for example, 50 Watts X4

It is not a 200 Watt output, it has only one amp and the output of that amp is 50 Watts.

To prove my point you only need to apply Ohm's Law (Power = Voltage X Current) to your head unit. Look at the fuse (probably rated at 10 Amps) and multiply by the nominal voltage (12 Volts DC for automotive). 10A X 12VDC = 120 Watts. Therrefore if your head unit (the whole unit, not just the internal amp.) operates at more than 120 W, the fuse will blow. Sorry but you can't break the laws of physics.

The term Watts RMS is one of these marketing terms and has NOT been adopted by any standards organization (such as ANSI or IEEE) in any country. Therefore it varries between manufactures. Both in how it is defined and how it is measured. Therefore as a measurement, it is just some Hockey Puck salesman making the unit sound bigger/better than the competiton.

Terms that do exist for Power are:
Peak Power - The maximum output of an amp. (for short periods of time); and

Continious Power - The maximum output of a unit during normal operation where it will not fail. (this is a % of Peak Power but varies on the application).

Until one of the recognised standards organizations define the term Watts RMS it does not mean a thing.
Phil

'87 Cabriolet, "Topless Bunny"
'88 Cabriolet, "Posh Bunny"
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Briano1234
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Re: rear spekers

Post by Briano1234 »

CalAltaDubber wrote:Having been in the electronics business for over 30 years (I'm a certified Technician/Technologist), I do think I know a thing or two about this.
Well Golly Gee, I can agree... Was starting to type something similar and got distracted....
Same as having the cable company tell me that "my DB's" were wrong I asked whats a DB, and he tried to blow proverbial smoke up my arse with Techno speak.... Gotta love the military and how they drilled electronics and wave propagation into you.
I nailed his ass.................
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rb0095
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:44 pm
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Re: rear spekers

Post by rb0095 »

bbrown wrote:This is a good read and may help clear up the RMS Watts discrepancies: http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/misc/rmspower.htm

This link summed it up nicely. Thank you for helping me learn something new.
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rb0095
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Re: rear spekers

Post by rb0095 »

Also, if anyone was wondering:

I looked up the specifications on my head unit:
Peak power is 50W and if I am understanding the booklet correctly then continuous power is 22W

Specifications of my current front speakers:
Peak power is 60W and then 2-20W for continuous power (RMS as some call it, however, I now know that the term RMS is incorrect for this rating)

Next Question,
When I get my rear speakers I will also be getting an amp, from what it sounds like based on what I have been told thus far, for better sound quality I will want to amp the front speakers too. With the continuous power rating for my front speakers (20W) this would mean I could only get a amp that is rated for 20W if I didn't want to blow out the front speakers too quickly, is that right?

So if I want to have more sound I should also upgrade my front speakers. Or is the stereo good enough for the front and I should just amp the rear speakers and then use the fader on the stereo to get a good balance?
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Briano1234
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Re: rear spekers

Post by Briano1234 »

No, on the head unit is says 20watts that is the max power that the head unit is going to put out to the speaker, or that is the maximum input that you are going to "give" to the amp.

my rule of thumb is the speaker should match or exceed the max power that you are going to put in it.

I think if you see a head unit that says 200 watts, they usually mean 50 watts a speaker times 4 speakers and that is 200 watts
So look at the rating of the amp per speaker, and that is what your speakers should be rated at.

Now the more you drive an inefficient speak the more distortion you will have, that is why speakers can sound fuzzy the louder they get.

I always buy speakers that are efficient and over-rated for the wattage that I am pushing. I have never blown a speaker out yet.
Briano

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You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
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