More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Have you done so much to the car today that it just doesn't fit into one section, or are you too damn lazy to split it all up? Either way, this is the section for you.

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roadtech
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What year is your cabby?: 1981
Do you own a Cabriolet?: Yes
Location: Cumming, GA

More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by roadtech »

Ok I have been through a lot. worked most of my wiring problems, got the engine timed but not gone through the dwell tune up proceedures. I ran into a water pump leak and have replaced the water pump, remover the square AC compressor cut up the AC mount so I could reattach the alternnator in it's original position. In the process I founds a part on the firewall that I can't identify, see picture below. and the engine will start real easy and idle around 1500 after a long warm up it will drop idle and sometimes stall if I am not watching for it. also when I test drive or just rev the engine past 3000 I will hear an audiable alarm and when the rpm drops it stops making noise? I do not have the seatbelt wire working so the seatbelt light is on all the time (???) would this have anything to do with the alarm ???.
Attachments
was located on the firewall near the heater hose outlets in the firewall, no wires or tubing connected to it
was located on the firewall near the heater hose outlets in the firewall, no wires or tubing connected to it
IMG_0052.JPG (45.1 KiB) Viewed 9725 times
CalAltaDubber
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Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by CalAltaDubber »

Sounds like you are coming along on this project.

It seems you have several questions here, so I will try to answer what I can.

I'm not sure what that is in your picture either. I think (and I can be wrong) that it is something a previous owner tried to install but never finished the job. The clue I have here is the electrical connector on the side of it looks more like what I would exlect to see on more modern cars. Is there a part number that you can find on it?

Next is your idle issue. 1500 RPM is a little fast, even for a cold engine. What does the RPM drop to when the car warms up? It should idle about 1100 RPM.

It sounds like the gasket by the idle adjust screw is worn out. If you replace that and fine tune your timing it should cure that issue.

The audible alarm does concern me. I have seen similar with one of my cars and the issue there is one of the oil pressure senders. So when you hear the alarm, do you have the oil light illuminated?

Since you have 3000 (I assume 3 Bar) on the pressure gauge, I assume it is the pressure sender that is on top of the Oil Filter Flange.

Finally, The audio alarm associated with seat belts is timed and only sounds for a short period of time when the car is first started. The easiest way of getting rid of the seat belt light is to hook up the connection under the driver's seat. I am just one of those people that can't stand having red lights illuminated while I'm driving.
Phil

'87 Cabriolet, "Topless Bunny"
'88 Cabriolet, "Posh Bunny"
'04 Golf
'12 Golf Wagon TDI
'69 Manx type Dune Buggy (New Toy)

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roadtech
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Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:44 pm
What year is your cabby?: 1981
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Location: Cumming, GA

Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by roadtech »

Thank you for your reply. About the auditable alarm. I have replaced the original gauges on the console. I put a regular temp gauge where the oil tem guage used to be. My dash water temp and oil temp both work. I have a replacement oil pressure and sender, it too works with a pressure just over 20 lbs when warm (not sure what is considered good) it will raise a little with an increase of RPM. I am aware there are a number of temp based switches and oil pressure based switches, Still trying to sort out. None of the pictures on this or other sites looks quite like my engine. I will take some pictures this evening and post the different sensors and you will see my water outlets and locations are slightly different. I intend to check each and every sensor once I understand which are which. Once done I will do the steps to use a dwell to setup the injection system.
CalAltaDubber
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Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by CalAltaDubber »

I guess it's best to wait and see your pictures. Sounds like previous owners have made some changes.

You might want to vist http://cabby-info.com. Kamy has a really good technical library there and I do believe that she does have some pictures that point out what senders are where.

There are two senders for oil on the oil filter flange. One is a thermocuple for the oil temp gauge, the other is the low oil pressure switch for the idiot light on the inst. bezel. It is also the one for the audible alarm. The other oil pressure sender is on the driver's side of the head and that is the one that operates the pressure gauge.

If your oil pressure is reading good, then I would suspect the low oil pressure sender.

The oil pressure spec for these cars is with the oil at 100 Deg. C and the engine at 2000 RPM the oil pressure must be greater than 2 Bar.

Since I have changed the gauges in one of my cars, I can tell you that is, oil at 212 Deg. F @ 2000 RPM oil pressure should be greater than 29 PSI.
Phil

'87 Cabriolet, "Topless Bunny"
'88 Cabriolet, "Posh Bunny"
'04 Golf
'12 Golf Wagon TDI
'69 Manx type Dune Buggy (New Toy)

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roadtech
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Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by roadtech »

Ok here are my photos
Attachments
This is the top of the oil filter. the big sender is pressure the small oil temp.
This is the top of the oil filter. the big sender is pressure the small oil temp.
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roadtech
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Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by roadtech »

these are the other sensors, not sure what they do?
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Here are the other 2 one in the side of the cyl head. ???? and another single wire in the water line (next to the 2 wire)
Here are the other 2 one in the side of the cyl head. ???? and another single wire in the water line (next to the 2 wire)
This is the switch in the water line. May be for Cold start ???
This is the switch in the water line. May be for Cold start ???
CalAltaDubber
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Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by CalAltaDubber »

roadtech wrote:Ok here are my photos
Ok, that's the first time I've seen the oil pressure sender mounted on the oil filter flange. The blue/yellow wire seems to be the right one for the gauge. That makes me ask what happened to the other oil pressure sender (small single wire one)? Is it mounted to the side of the head?

Have a look at this page, http://www.cabby-info.com/electrical.htm it should help identify some of the senders.
Phil

'87 Cabriolet, "Topless Bunny"
'88 Cabriolet, "Posh Bunny"
'04 Golf
'12 Golf Wagon TDI
'69 Manx type Dune Buggy (New Toy)

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CalAltaDubber
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Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by CalAltaDubber »

roadtech wrote:these are the other sensors, not sure what they do?
The nail head sender with the red/yellow wire is your coolant temp sensor.

The single wire one next to it in the head appears to be the low oil pressure sender. It appears that the two oil pressure senders have been relocated to the other position. This is the one that controls the idiot light and audible alarm.

The one with the two connectors is most likely for the Thermal-time switch.

If you want, I can take a couple of photos tomorrow for you to confirm my comments.
Phil

'87 Cabriolet, "Topless Bunny"
'88 Cabriolet, "Posh Bunny"
'04 Golf
'12 Golf Wagon TDI
'69 Manx type Dune Buggy (New Toy)

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roadtech
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Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by roadtech »

How would I test the low pressure switch is it a ground when low or under pressure
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Briano1234
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Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by Briano1234 »

roadtech wrote:How would I test the low pressure switch is it a ground when low or under pressure
Don't, just replace it. Have you replaced the grounds on the car?
Briano

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roadtech
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Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by roadtech »

I wasn't asking to replace I was asking how to test I assume it is a switch to ground I was asking
If working properly dose it close with pressure or without pressure. I want to test it to see if its functioning properly
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Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by CalAltaDubber »

OK, Just to make sure, I consulted my Bently.

The low oil pressure switch with the black/blue wire is the 1.8 Bar pressure switch and is normally closed (meaning it should be shorted to ground.) This switch opens when oil pressure is greater than 1.8 bar and should cause the oil indicator to flash when the key is in the ON position but the engine is not running. It is normally mounted on top of the oil filter flange.

The 0.3 Bar oil pressure switch is also part of the oil pressure sender. Normally mounted on the head, (yours is on the oil filter flange) has two wires connected. This switch is normally open (meaning that it is not shorted to ground). The blue/yellow wire is the signal for the oil pressure gauge. There should also be a yellow wire. This is the signal that goes to the Oil Pressure Control Unit in the instrument cluster. The switch should close when oil pressure is greater than 0.3 bar. if the switch is stuck open or the oil pressure is less than 0.3 Bar with the engine operating at or above 2000 RPM the oil warning light is supposed to flash and the audible warning will sound.

I don't see the yellow wire in your pictures, so the question is what happened to it? It also explains the alarm you hear.

I hope this helps.
Phil

'87 Cabriolet, "Topless Bunny"
'88 Cabriolet, "Posh Bunny"
'04 Golf
'12 Golf Wagon TDI
'69 Manx type Dune Buggy (New Toy)

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Briano1234
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Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by Briano1234 »

That one sensor is bigger than I have ever seen. It looks like the one that is on the side of the head for the pressure gauge in the console as well as warning light, the fact that it is not there is a wonderment,

I was sure that the senders all were single pin and looked like a "shorty" spark plug.
high / warning flange
Image

low warning/buzzer if below at higher revs head
Image

temp sender top of flange
Image
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
User avatar
roadtech
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Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by roadtech »

the work I did on the oil pressure and oil temp was based on the wire color, The large sender on the top center of the oli filter housing was to the oil pressure and only had one wire, I replaced it with the same type sender (VDO) brand and the oil pressure guage works (this is an after market VDO oil pressure gauge, not the original), the small sender on the oil filter housing front (under large red wire in picture) went to the oil temp gauge, I replaced with a (VDO) sender (water temp) (I figure temp is temp) and guage and it works, reads temp when the engine warms up. The only other sender is mounted on the driver's end of the cyl head, It looks just like the picture that "Briano" posted with the white insulator. Until this thread I did not know if that sensor was for water or oil. So based on my photos and wire colors I have 2 working gauges (located in the console next to shifter) Now I would like to track down the audiable warning and fix it. Not sure what color the low pressure switch wire should be. I would also like to say thank you Briano and Phil for your help on this matter. I purchased this car for the prospect of High MPG and did not expect this many issues. I think the car has had a history of "Shade tree" repair. I was lucky and found a couple of salvage auto at the lithonia Pull a Part "Briano" and I was able to learn how things were properly placed, pulled some important harness's and dash parts, grills, lights and so on. I am now ready to get the car on the road. I may need to do an engine rebuild (160,000 miles) on odometer, which is not a problem, except the piston, rings and Gaskets are becoming rare and hard to find. I do not want to go off topic because I would like to sort out the last alarm issue. But I may consider upgrading to a new engine (1.8) if it is a direct swap type situation. The rebuild is prefered if I can get the parts.
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Re: More questions 81 cabby 1.7 gas 5mt

Post by Briano1234 »

Lithonia?

You are local to me? Shoot..... I am but a hop, skip, and a jump from Lithonia. Now fess up the General area that you are in?
Briano

Yes as matter of fact, I have the Luck o'the Irish...everything I touch turns to fertilizer of the bovine variety.
You can lead a user to a link, but you can't make him Click.... :screwy:
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